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Selling Out Show
Selling Out Show

Episode 6 · 3 years ago

Ep.#6 Mental Health

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Nothing better than when a controversial topic like mental health is discussed by some real experts. Their credentials include more "hands-on" experience than textbook knowledge, but hey, it’s something i guess…
The dialogue spans from the hosts’ personal experience to society's views on the subject. What are some tried and tested remedies for stress, and could there be a link between leisure time and depression?
ALSO: Henry Rollins said something douchey, and we finish with The Sound Off and Nate’s Notes, wherein a 39 year old man contemplates putting on some black leather and lots of make up.

3:40-some stats and personal experience…
7:20 early experiences w therapy
10:20 society’s evolving views on mental health
15:00 Diagnoses/medication and a few alternative remedies
30:45 does leisure time create depression?
33:00 Suicide/Henry Rollins is a douchebag
48:45 Selling Out Sound Off
56:30 Nate’s Notes

Infirmary media you were now to Dick to the selling out podcast. What it does is breaches into your brain chemically and now cat your happiest memory chemically and then blocks onto that emotion, releases it chemically, and then it keeps your happy, happy. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the selling out show. I am one of your host David Scholtzen. By My side is my good pal Naygrezinsky. Nate, how are you today? Not Bad man. I was just watching my cat fighting a shoe with all the passion of someone fighting for their life. So, yeah, yeah, he seems to be winning, so it's good new to step in to save the shoe. Now, now the shoe can can handle his own battles. It bit it. Yeah, yea biting. See, that's scratching and all that. We talked about pets a couple episodes back, and that's one thing that just drives me nuts. I have a pair of shoes and one day I found like a chicken bone in it and like where the fuck did this come? Yeah, exactly. Don't like. My shoes smell like a chicken breast or something, and it's fucking Gross, you know. So, yeah, that's not a common issue. I don't know, finding what? Finding bones in your shoes? Yeah, man, I don't know what kind of are do. Where do you live? Man? I live in the swamps. Ha, I live in the body. It's a Voodoo shoo. All right, man. So this time out you pick the topic and you were interested in discussing mental health. Yeah, man, I mean just in in in an in so far as it pertains to US personally. I'M NOT IN UH Huh. Yeah, neither of US claim to be experts on the subject, but no, nothing experts and nothing. Yeah, man, we are an unscripted show and we just like to talk about stuff. Is To you know, two pals would so, yeah, definitely, no PhD's and mental illness here. No, no, no, but I think it's a subject that, you know, most people, I feel like, have have either dealt with someone with mental health issues or are affected themselves. So it's it's pertinent. It's something we can all all understand or at least relate to. So, yeah, there's not something a lot of people even think of. Sometimes you think your body physically, yeah, when you talk about maintaining your health, but your mind is a very important factor. You're in that. There's a lot of people who say, and I believe it, that stress induces your actual physical ailments. So if you're really fucking stressed out, you're going to catch a cold, you're you're going to get sick. That's definitely true. Men stresses a stress as a killer. It's yeah, it really is weird, how how mental health issues and emotional or psychological issues really do manifest in physical ways sometimes, and I don't know, it's it's definitely a big, big factor in addiction. I'm sure we'll get into that as the actually, yes, yes, we will. Okay, and I just said, were inscripted by did a little bit of research last night, just a just a touch show, Kay, and I guess some stats from the National Alliance on mental illness, and I'm going to give you three just to start off here. Approximately one in five adults in the US, forty three point eight million, or eighteen point five percent, experiences mental illness in a given year. Wow, yeah, okay, so bring fact. Yeah, indeed, approximately one twenty five adults in the US, nine point eight million, or four percent, experiences a serious mental illness and a given you that substantially interferes with or limits one or more major life activities. MMM, yeah, it's another another staggering it, is it really? I mean seriously, it's like I can't go outside today, you know where, I can't attend a birthday party, I can't do certain normal things that everybody else can do because is something is really bogging me down. Yeah, okay, last at I'm going to give you. This was kind of a I know you found this fairly pertinent and estimated twenty six percent of homeless adult staying in shelters lived with serious mental illness and an estimated forty six percent lived with severe mental illness and or substance use disorder. So basically that ties in a lot of the problems with addiction and your mental health. Yeah, I mean this is definitely something that I've thought about a lot and wanted to discuss. Mental Health and addiction go hand...

...in hand. I mean addiction people, people think of addicts as that's the root issue is. I'm an addict. I believe that addiction is more or less just a symptom of a bigger issue. The drug use all the lifestyle that comes along with the drug use seems to be more of the manifestation of a deeper issue in us, and I know that personally, I would use for to fit in socially because I felt awkward socially. Or, you know, you drink or you do whatever to as a social lubricant to kind of fit in and not feel so awkward. And that's and that's a minor one. Eventually it gets two deeper things like depression and all these crippling issues you talk about that stat where where it inhibits people from doing their normal routines or normal life events. Well, as an addict, I couldn't do anything without using I couldn't get out of bed. But but it's definitely they definitely go hand in hand, is what I'm saying. You know, it's I like the fact you brought up social lubricant, because that's basically where that starts out. Like me, as someone who used to be a heavy drinker, at first you do it for fun, you go out to have a few last but then later you even use it as a coping mechanism, and that's where it gets dangerous. Yeah, absolutely, it crosses that line. From this makes things easier and helps a little too. I can't go out and do things without it, and that's where you got the real issue. And not everyone apparently has that issue. But to some of us we feel that to a certain extent it just kind of helps us in our lives. But but some of us it's a crippling issue and we really have had serious life issues as a result of it. So and we were self medicating. So why were we not seeking the help of professionals? Right? Well, it's funny because I by the time I did start seeking professional help on my own, it was after things had already gotten to such a horrible extent that I was I was a mess saying, you know, help me, somebody help me. But yeah, but my early experiences with with psychology psychiatry as a teenager, my my parents started noticing the little issues where either I went from a good student, I always got good grades, and all of a sudden I'm having, yeah, issues where the teacher needs to talk to my folks, or I'm acting out in class or whatever as a younger teenager. And gradually, yeah, missing school or taking drugs in school, whatever it was, it got to the point where my folks, yeah, they took me to see a shrink but as a kid man, I did not see the appeal of that. I didn't. I didn't see it as a beneficial thing for me. I looked at this shrink as another authority figure, like my parents. Oh Yeah, some dude that my parents and said you have to go talk to. So I felt like I was in trouble and I didn't use it as a tool to make me better. I looked at it like what do I have to say to this guy for him to be like, okay, you're okay, he'll tell my folks that. You know, there's no problem. So I didn't get any help out of it. I was basically just like yeah, telling, blowing, you know, rainbows up the guy's ass to get him off my case. And Yeah, years later I learned that psychology can be a real tool and it's helped a lot of people, but I don't know it just R see. How old were you? What was your age, because I only ask because you were like, yeah, I'm blowing rainbows up the guy's ass so you'll leave me alone. But there's also time and everybody's life. Where you trying to you know, perpetuating illness and they get some free mints. Yeah, I wasn't there yet. I didn't. I mean this was when my parents first took me to see a psychologist. I don't I don't even think I had even tried any drugs at that point. I was I was young. I mean I may have. I was already have an issues in like seventh grade. I had a teacher it was. Yeah, so, I mean there were issues early on and red flags or whatever, and and within the next few years I'm experimenting with drugs and finding that those, you know, quote unquote, solved the problem, even though they they weren't solving the problem. They were exacerbating it. But to me I was like, Oh, this is all I need to do is smoke a little weed or take some acid in school and, yeah, all my problems go away. Yeah, I'm a lot happier. But yeah, it's weird, man, that that issue of drug use and mental health it's kind of a chicken egg scenario where to the drugs cause mental issues, because they definitely have. With me. They, like I said, they've exacerbated mental issues, they've they've made them worse, but they're definitely worth some preexisting issues that made me turn to drugs in the first place. So...

...it becomes this vicious cycle where I get high because my mind is messed up and now my mind is messed up because I'm on the drugs and it's hard to get off that merry go round, so to speak. But yeah, it's an issue, obviously from those stats that that a lot of people are struggling with. So it's you know, it's good to talk about it, as we did. That's that's a tough thing to getting your feelings out. Nowadays it seems much easier. Yeah, I think when we grew up it was still, I don't know, we were in an age where I think it was starting to the floodgates were starting to open as far as you know, being an individual, and it was okay to do such things. But I almost feel like it was it was like, okay, if I admit I'm depressed over something, someone's going to pick on me or someone's going to look down on me and think I'm a piece of shit or I'm a pussy yes, or you know, whatever the case may be here. So a lot of times you had to keep that stuff bottle up inside right right. And it's interesting because of on an earlier episode we had talked about how the paradigm had sort of shifted in pop music or in rock music, where the subject matter turned to more you know, I had a rough childhood, or I am sad and I need to get this out in music. And at that point it felt like, yeah, in larger society, there it became more acceptable to talk about these the depression and all that. So, yeah, it's I think overall it's been a good thing. It's it's just when does it go too far? You in a way you start to wonder, are we turning into an entitled Society of of whiners and whatnot, which sounds horrible, because it's true a lot of people do need to get this stuff out. It is healthy to talk about stuff. But you know, at some point we're also cynical, sarcastic. Oh, yeah, and so, you know, you only want to hear so much. We all have our problems, just you know. Well, I mean even going back in time, they're remember when Kurt Colbean committed suicide. It seemed like every other teenager was talking about how depress they were and how they wanted to blow their fucking brains out. And you would be in school. I mean not you, but I mean just people in general, myself included. We'd be like, Oh, that guy's a fucking faker. Yeah, you know, he wants to be cool. And it's like wait, what? Yeah, it is cool to be fucking off in yourself now. Yeah, it's strange. It's strange because it's something that others can relate to. It's something that, whereas when we were younger, as you mentioned, it was something that may have seemed a little more taboo to discuss, now it's it's something that could bring people together and and it probably always has been. It's always been something where, if you really sit in one on one with somebody and talk about how you really feel, when you strip away all the social trying to be cool bullshit, there's there's a lot more we have in common, and that's something that I've always tried to nurture in my friendships. Is like, I want to get real, man, you know, I want and I'm talking to my friends. I want to I don't know, it's fun to joke around and whatever, but I've always been somebody that's you know, I was. I was a freaking Goth Kid, you know what I mean? Let's say I remember. So I don't know, as I mean as a kid, throughout my teen years, I was definitely a social animal. You know, you, you and I were part of this huge group of friends that spawned several towns in the area, friends of varying ages, and we were like able to drink a lot easier because, you know, if you older. Yeah, a few of our friends were already twenty one plus, and we, maybe we were sophomores and juniors, but the point is we were constantly surrounded by other people and always out doing shit, partying, writing music, whatever. And the drugs we did back then, we're social drugs. We smoked a lot of pot, we drank a lot, even take an acid or mescaline or whatever was. It was like a journey that you always took with a group of a few friends. Even coke and math and whatever. You know, it made us chatty and sociable, and even when I started sniffing dope in my late teens, usually it was a few of us, but most of our group is smart enough to not get too deep into that shit. I was. I wasn't so logicals and I definitely have this physical mental condition that predisposes me to keep doing those things that feel good like compulsively. I'm an addict, but it's in my blood. But I think it's safe to say that after a while, most heroin users or habitual drug users stop being so social. I don't, I don't. I don't mean to hijack this here, man, I don't know. You know, you US got me thinking about though. What's that like? We're talking now about being teenagers, we're talking about our youth, and that's great. We're live in these moments, you know, because it was a bonding thing for a lot of us, because we're I my parents were not like share your feelings, right, no one in my family was all about sharing your feelings. So it was cool to have have a group of friends that not only we into the same kind of music, that like to party, but I could tell you shit. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like it was an outlet for me. MMM. But all these years later, I've never really...

...been diagnosed for anything. MMM. So I don't know if I'd there was a legit problem with me or Ifar I was just a fucking angsty teenager. Right, right, I have no clue because I've never been diagnosed with one damn thing. Right. What's normal? It's hard what is normal and and I'm afraid that I'm going to do that to my own kid because it's hard to tell. Now is there something really wrong with somebody or is that just the growing pains? Is that just a normal behavior? Right, right, how much? How much mental stress and depression or whatever, is just part of growing pains and learning to live in this society. It's a weird life. Is Weird, man. You know, yeah, it's you know. But talking about that, like a few of the detox facilities I've been to over the years will they'll do a psyche val, like a psychiatric evaluation, on their patients, right, which is a noble idea, don't get me wrong, but but dude, you're in a detox for a week tops and it's usually a traumatic week. Your systems all fucked up. It's not the best time to diagnose someone psychologically. You know where we're all anxious and depressed when we're detoxing. It's it's not like your baseline status. And I understand if you if you go on to further treatment or you go to see a shrink after you've been clean a few months. You know, but don't put me on psych meds because I seem like I need them, like the week that I'm kicking in, my systems all fucked up. You know, they just sick. Yeah, that mean in your mind is messed up to it's like the sickness, the physical sickness, is one thing, but there's so many symptoms of yeah, like the guilt and the shame of all the Shit you've done while you're out there, or the you know, it's yeah, it's it's a sloppy business man, and they I'm do. They tried putting me on abilify, they put me on search reuly and they put me on effects or all of which I found to be, at the very least, ineffective or at worst, they gave me some really fucked up side effects. Man, like dude, I was having weird temporal issues where I felt like time was either like slowing down or everything seemed to be speeding up around me, like the world was in fast forward. It's it's hard to explain, but it was really UN really like a flash. Yeah, that's what it felt like. You the scene without the cool suit, yeah, or like quicksilver in the xmen movies, when everything was, you know, moving real slow around that's how it hit fell right. So a weird extent. So it's like I've heard people say, when it comes to psych meds, you have to you have to try a few before you find the right one. But I don't know how much of that I can take, man. Some of those side effects are rough. I just I gave up after a while to be on anything ever work for you. Is there any like medication you've taken in your whole life for I mean, has it been like a cure all pill that made you feel better? Nope, not, know nothing. I have friends that have said that they've found certain things like I've, you know, a friend who's like who swears by Zolaft or whatever it may be. My, you know, family members that are on Paxxel or whatever, but I just haven't found it, man, and I don't know. I think that marijuana is it's controversial, but I think that it does a lot to help, even if you just smoke at the end of the day to kind of unwind. Whatever it's there's there's all these medicinal sort of factor's in marijuana that so many people have been afraid to bring up because it's it's been the schedule one drug, and I feel like marijuana, not only are there a million physical but medicinal benefits, but mental health wise, I feel like it does a lot for some of us, because I know, like you've said, you don't smoke anymore because it makes you paranoid or it makes you think too much. Some people, yeah, have adverse reactions. But it's weird. Yeah, because when I first smoke dope ever in my whole entire life, when I first smoke we'd, I remember saying to someone, don't let me walk into the road because I was really fucking baked. You know. Then after a while, yeah, and then after a while you get used to it and it's almost like nothing is you know, you're the cool guy, you're always fucking high. You can handle any situation. Now here I am at forty. Yeah, if I was going to Toke today, I'd be totally freaked out. I'd be like, what's that noise? Yeah, what's going on? You'd be like don't, Oh my God, don't let me walk into the yeah, exactly, please, no one let me walk into the street. So for me, yeah, it's a no fly zone. Yeah, man. Yeah, and I don't know, I feel like so, so much of selfhelp and twelve step programs that I've been involved in. The they preach abstinence only sort of, you know treatment, like don't, don't do any of these mood or mine altering drugs, which is why I I have trouble stay, you know, staying involved. I feel like. I feel like marijuana has been beneficial to me. They they have a little name for they called them the marijuana maintenance program that people get on the marijuana maintenance program and they look down upon it and these twelve step circles...

...because they say, well, if you're doing one drug, it's that much easier to do another one, which I see the validity and I see that, but but I don't know, I feel like marijuana has helped a lot of people I know. So I don't know. I have trouble demonizing it and I have trouble just writing it off. I mean I think, yeah, I know, I hear you, man, because realistically is not bad for you. You're right. I mean, I'm not going to smoke it. Yeah, I'm not going to ingest it, but I could admit it is not evil. Right. I think the word they fucking reefer madness you know, you sure? I think the worst thing about it is when you smoke it you're ingesting, you know, carcinogens smoke. But that's why now that people vape, now people do edibles, you know, oils, all that stuff. There's there are ways to do it more safely and it's hard to find really negative impact, you know, a negative effects. So I don't know, but but there's a big difference between marijuana and some of some of the other drugs have done, and I mean it's Oh yeah, I think it's safe to say that after a while most heroin users stop being so social. The lifestyle demands a lot of time and effort and when you're sick, before you get what you need for the day, you you don't really want to hang out with anyone. Man, you know, you, you just want your shit. Eventually you start with some antisocial criminal behavior to help you get what you need. It just comes with the territory it. If you're not lying and stealing to get what you need, maybe your bugging your friends and family to spare some cash. And Dude, either way, people stop being really excited to get together with you. Oh Yeah, Oh yeah, listen, it's not just heroin. It's any sure? Yeah, man, it's like when you drink it. First you're the funny guy, everybody wants you in a party, and then you just can't stop. You can't. You don't have a turn off switch anymore. Yeah, and you become that sloshed mess that no one can stand being around. Right and and it's and it's not just the effects of the drug itself on your brain. Eventually, when you're isolated, it's like being isolated for that long does a number on you too. You start doing when you're not around a lot of people, there's no one there to kind of point out that your actions are weird or like not, you know, necessarily acceptable. You know so. So I start with all these personal weird ticks and talking to myself and, Dude, I've got a number of them that that I just they went unchecked for a long time. So it's a it's a paranoid life where most people are out as an addict, as a heroin attic. Most people that you encounter in that lifestyle or either out to sucker you out of something or you're looking for someone to succor yourself. And it's unhealthy and it's lonely, and I was. And I was an addict cursed with a conscience. So add to the isolation and the paranoia a huge helping of guilt and self hatred and shame, and before long you got a mess of mental health issues. To this day, I struggle with social anxiety, random bouts of depression, low self esteem, and they say, you know, it's it just keeps going, man, it's well, that's something I want to ask you about, because we've basically covered how we grew up. Yep, undiagnosed, into drugs and booze and really just fucked everything up. Yeah, but what about now? Hmm, you just, you know, gave us a laundry list of ailments you think you suffer from, or do you know you suffer from? I don't know. I. Have you been seeing anybody, or is this just something that you've been self diagnosic? Well, again, I was officially diagnosed at detox facilities with social anxiety, depression to it, to an extent, and it's, I say, to an ex sent because again it's I'm I'm detoxing. But I know that they're right to an extent, because even after the acute withdrawal or whatever they call it once here, once you've been cleaned for a while, I still struggle with all these issues, which is why I've found things again. I'm self medicating, but it's with I mentioned Kretom on the first episode, or whatever it is. I mean, even if they're prescribing something to you, you're ingesting a mood or mind altering chemical. So it can't be totally an issue if I'm finding that something like Kreedom works for me. It it if I'm depressed or I'm socially anxious and this lubricates me. It's that fine line, though, is am I using something dependently addictively, or am I just finding a medication that works? It's so wait, it's a true I'm surprised people aren't all hypochondriacs now, because every other commercial on TV, for the people who still watch, you know, regular broadcast TV, is for a prescription medicine. Right, right. It's messed up all the the there are more ads for medications than than almost anything else.

You See, you never saw that when we were kids. You didn't see all that. You know, you know, yeah, it's there. That's what you had. You got a headache. Take A fucking asspirate. That's it. Nowadays they're advertising stuff. You can't go to the store and find it makes sense to have a commercial for something. Go to the store and get this. Now all the commercials are ask your doctor about this. Ask you yeah, they get kept backs. Yeah, that's why, because they write that script for you, they get some free shit. Yeah, man. Yeah, so that's that's another dangerous thing to you go and looking for help. But how much help are you really receiving when the doctor's got someone, you know, someone else's hand in their back pockets, like politics? Yeah, you know. Yeah, man, do you know what strange? What's AP? When I was a kid, I I don't know, I would when I would walk around and be alone, like I went for a lot of walks alone as a kid. I live, we lived in rural area, so it wasn't like walking down the street in the city. So I want a lot of walks in the woods or and I remember as a kid I would have this weird feeling that when I was alone, even if I wasn't with anyone, I had this weird feeling like I'm still not quite alone. And and before I became such an atheist or whatever, I used to like attribute it to maybe there is a god, maybe there's some of that, because I just felt like, I know it sounds, walking with Jesus. Yes, I was walking with my Lord, but whatever it was. As time went on, I don't know, I started doing drugs and things, so I kind of attributed it more to that, but when I think back on it, it really did have it occurred before the drug you started, and now I'm like, is that a form of schizophrenia? You start to maybe to wonder, but maybe that, maybe that's but all these religious people that are like, Oh, I really feel the presence of God, I really feel the prison, maybe they're all just like mild schizophrenics. You go speaking in tongues their schizophrenic. Yeah, man, they could be. And I mean there's going to be some people listening to the show right now that might even be angry at us because they're like, you guys are just fucking talking about some serious shit and you might even have that shit right and you just kind of like playing around like yeah, no big deal, because what I was going to say to you is if I actually do have any kind of condition whatsoever. Yeah, you know what I call it stress Yep, I bundle everything together. We live in a as another great thing about this country, right, everything has to be bundled. But your phone, your cable, your Internet, put your all you all the problems you have in your mind together and just call it stress. Right, you know. So if I'm not feeling well, if I'm feeling bummed out and someone says hey, what's the matter with you, and say as stress his dressed, no big deal, no fucking Biggie, I can handle it, and I do, because I have now. I don't use drugs and alcohol. I have other ways to cope. Are the ways to deal with these these things. Yeah, and you may laugh, but you want to know what I use? That's a comics and fucking hey, dude, whatever works, man, I'm not going to laugh at that. No, I love reading comics, just like all my life, I'm a huge comic book Fan and if I can just like grab an old comic book, just smell it, smell that old mustict smell, sit back, kick back, enjoy it, I'm on fucking cloud nine. And the other thing, if I'm really just fucking on edge, I want to fuck hey, I just want to screw and then, once I'm done. I'm it's Nirvana, baby. Good for you, and that's healthy, as long as you're, you know, doing it consensually, I guess. Yeah, yeah, not like on the side of the street jerking off. Yeah, but look at me, I'm stressed out. I gotta do this, man. I'm sorry, I got this. Yeah, I said no, no, it's no, trust me, it's a I within you know, yeah, within these walls. I know it's all right, I'm not going to get arrested for any lude behavior anytime soon. Yeah, but still, I mean, to each their own, sure, but those two things to me really helped me relax. The other thing I used to do, and this one is a little creepy, okay, okay, and I got to be honest, is there's a woman I met many years ago who had a name and I love the way the name would flow off my tongue. I'm not going to say her name on the show because I don't want to, like I don't embarrass her right or anything like that, but sometimes, if I'm like really fucking upset about something, I'll repeat her name in my head, MMM, and it's like, I don't want to call it a mantra but what would you call it? Like that's almost a munch. I would call it him. I think so. Yeah, man, but it's so soothing to me because there's such a beautiful like I just want to say it to you, guys, but again, it wouldn't be fair to the person, right. But sometimes I do that and I think that's really the only odd, kind of Ticky, HMM thing I do. Now, you know, maybe. Well, Hey, if it whatever works, man, like I I write music that seems to work when if I don't have an instrument around. Sometimes writing poetry, whatever it, lyrics, whatever they are, even if they're Shitty, even if I look back on them later, if it felt good to write them, it helps, man. So there are ways, you know, to deal with these things, stress and whatnot, when without using chemicals. But it's...

...just how intense did they get? Because I'm not if there are sometimes I'm times I'm not going to lie where, you know, no, no amount of lyrics or playing guitar is gonna get me out of it, you know. And so really, yeah, yeah, I definitely get to those points. I don't anymore. I really don't like if I have enough comic books and enough sex I'm pretty good. That's good, man. Maybe maybe it's too and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe if I made it a rule where I'm not gonna smoke a joint or I'm not gonna have a you know, glass and wine or whatever, I'm just, you know, I'll get through this, pick up a guitar, get through it. Maybe I could. But maybe I'm just I give up too quick. Maybe that's the issue. Maybe a lot of it. Yeah, maybe a lot of these things would just kind of pass if I, if I gave them time to do so. I just I don't know. I think we are we are a culture that's quick to grab a pill or a substance to kind of fix our issues and and even though they may work, there are other ways. I mean, people have existed for Millennia without any of this shit for so long, and I don't know how much, how much of it is society's demands on us as people. And nowadays, I mean when when there were a hunters and gatherers and and people out there, the cavemen and whatnot, did you did you have a lot of people talking about their issues? You know, yeah, I feel like leisure time is it. It gives us time to to think about all these things that you just didn't have time to think about when you are out there. You had to I better find food today or old I'm going to starve or my kids are going to start now we have so much time that we just think about all these things and we have, I don't know, we have time to to convince ourselves that that we're missing out on things or we suck. Yeah, we need something else, right, right, I don't know. It's it's weird. Society is weird. We have so much leisure, we have so much, so many gifts that technology and and went and time has brought us. But we have got a lot more time to think about how how much stuff sucks to it's so, I know. I mean bullying now is take is taken to a whole new level. Yeah, sure, I hear. I hear this stuff about cyber bullying and everything else. I'm like, how listen, I don't want to sound like an insensitive prick here, but for me growing up, a bully would come and punch you in the fucking face. So if you get your feelings hurt because someone's saying Nasty Shit about you on the internet or spreading a picture around or something. For me it's like, yeah, who gives a fuck? But again, I guess I'm not in those shoes. Right, I can't really spe I can only speak on my behalf. Yeah, you know. So, yeah, and I want to hit you with a few more stats here. Sure, because he's a fairly serious and it kind of ties into not only the thing I was talking about, the cyber bullying and everything else, but the people who don't seek help, but people who don't have methods to relax like you and I do, or to ease our brains. Suicide, man, and suicide is a ten leading cause of death in the US. Wow, the third leading cause of death for people aged ten to fourteen, wow, and a second leading cause of death where people aged fifteen to twenty four che more than ninety percent of children who die by a suicide have a mental health condition. Yeah, each day, and estimated eighteen to twenty, two veterans die by a suicide, and that ties into the PTSD. So, man, a lot of untreated people, a lot of people that don't have that outlet and they off themselves. And that's fucking that's alarming shit. I know, I know, it's crazy, man. Yeah, I mean it seems like you're seeing a lot of celebrities suicides, whether it was, you know, Chris Cornell, the dude, yeah, the dude from Lincoln Park, and Anthony Burdane, all these people, man, it's even a Robin Williams. You know, it's all God, yeah, it's messed up, man, and I and you know I, yeah, I was bring up Kurt Colbain, Yep, but these guys, and here's I don't really have a lot of sympathy for that really. You know why? Because they're fucking rich. They got money, they got cars, they got coke, they got hook is, they get whatever they need to get through the day. But then they decide, you know what to say, good enough, I don't care about my yacht any worn. I'm going to fucking go hang myself in a closet. and that bothers me. See, it's funny because right before he said that, I was just going to say how I listened to Henry Rawlins one day. Henry Rowlins is somebody that when I was a kid, I appreciated him. I was like, yeah, this guy knows what he's talking about. He's strong, he's he's all about self improvement. And then the older I got, the more I realized Henry Rollins is that dude that you would be like, Oh my God, Henry's coming over. I got to get out of here before he talks my ear off. He just thinks he knows about everything and his opinion. He's I know people like that now, but anyway, he had something to say about Robin Williams back when Robin Williams killed himself and he said, you know, all the positive things Robin Williams did when he was alive, to me now they...

...are null and void. They mean nothing to me now because he because of his actions. As soon as you kill yourself, to me that discredits everything you did in your life and to me you're nothing, and that that put the final nail in the coffin. For me. With Henry Rawlins I it's like, okay, I'm now done with this dude. But for he's like you're a fucking coward. Yeah, well, yes, you know that's a little severe. I I didn't want to sound like a complete fucking brute saying I don't have sympathy for those people. Yeah, but I wouldn't discredit their works or what they could treated well they were alive. No, I understand what you're saying to because, yeah, you would think that, you know a shit, if I had all that stuff, I would find a way to be happy, but it's to me it just shows that happiness is not contingent upon money and that even if you have, quote unquote, all the things that you want or whatever, you still get depressed enough to where I'm done with this life, man, you know, and to me that's scary more than anything because it means that no matter how you define success, eventually you could still, even if you're as successful as you as you can possibly get in your given field, you could still get so depressed that you want to fucking off yourself. And with Robin Williams and I and I thought with Anthony Burdane, but apparently it's not true. I didn't know him personally. I've heard of ready, of course, that that it had to do with another relapse in his life and apparently he found out that he was in the beginning stages of some form of Parkinson's or something that was going to make his life a lot more difficult in the future. But I don't know if that contributed to his relapse or whatever. But I know as an addict, if I got rich and famous and had all the money in the world, if I relapse and I was stuck back in this same cycle of depression and pain and all this and and I had all that money, I would feel like, well, Shit, now how if I if I want to, I don't even ever have to stop. I can just keep using, which just is you're digging yourself into a deeper but I feel like it would be harder for me to stop using if I had all that money. You would think, well now you, yeah, you've got so much more to live for. But know you also have enough money to kill yourself with drugs. And it's hard, man, when you're in when you when you're that type of person, I don't know, I can see how it gets so dark and bleak that you want to kill yourself. I I personally will say I never had the balls to do it, but there were definitely times in my life that I would have paid someone gladly to do it for me and ISS you kill me. But you know, I was going to say it's like Larry Flint right, he'd have his doctor on speed dialude show up with a briefcase full of drugs and prescription medication he needed, sure because he was in pain. Yeah, so there you are with the with the rich folk. You're talking about Robin Williams or whoever. Yeah, they could essentially do the same thing. You got millions and millions of dollars, God knows how much money. MMM. And I know you're saying is it's not the right thing to do. Yeah, but you could totally immerse yourself in it. So I don't know. Yeah, and I really feel like a Dick for saying I get no sympathy. I really do. I'm sorry and I'm kind of stubbling over myself. It's all right, man, I don't. I don't want to take it back. Yeah, I really don't. I understand you feel like money fixes so much fucking Shit, but now that we're talking about it, I'm like Shit, yeah, now the words have come out of my face. I'm like fuck, you can get anything you want. You get as fucked up as you want. You're eventually just going to o d anyway. If it wasn't, you know, a direct suicide like Chris Cornell. Right, yeah, that was fucked up. This guy. Fucking we what do you do? Put a quarter on his neck and yanked on the fucking thing until he died. was at it. I don't even know. I don't even I believe it. We believe it wasn't just your you know, runner the mill I shouldn't even call it runner the Millle, but like hanging a noose, yeah, around a something on the ceiling and hanging yourself. Right, fucking guy, put some serious intent, yeah, into killing himself. That's serious shit. I don't want to make the I don't want to make light of anybody sure hurting themselves, cutting themselves, hurting other people, whatever the case may be, because they are mentally sick. Yeah, whatever, no, I know, it's just sign man. Yeah, for me, we talked about what I use to deal with everything, life's stressors. Yep. So you just give me shitloads of money, I'm gonna go fucking sit on my yacht, pop a cork, have a fucking good time and enjoy some sunshine and that that. That's it, and read some comics and raise it. Read some old fucking musty comics from the back issue been yeah, Hey, man, that's cool. Yeah, man, and I understand. Listen our thoughts are. So, you know, they can be contradictory. We can we can sympathize with these people, but at the same time we can be like, listen, and I don't understand why you did what you did and it I wouldn't have done it. So it's like, yeah, I in some ways I totally understand what you're saying. Like I'm pissed at some of these guys for doing that. It's, in a selfish way now weird deprived of anything more that Anthony Burdane or Chris Cornell or Kurt cobain...

...could have given to us, you know. And and so in some ways I'm I'm like, you know, pissed at them for doing what they did, but I'm just saying I can understand, especially when someone's struggles with addiction. Like I've definitely been to that, hit that low. Yeah, but you just say absolutely in there that you you would have actually is you just mentioned, to quote you, Hey, someone to fucking kill you, shit man. Yeah, that's a lazy man suicide. It's like, Huh, how can I do this? Is there's some can you look up online, as there's some dark website where you can find like sure, I'll pay some guy when I'm not expecting it. Just you choose the time. So when I'm not sure, when I'm not expecting it, I'll just get a bullet in the back of the head and I'll never even know it's coming. Yeah, I'm sure there is a dark web or whatever. I mean. You know, I was going to say Kevorki and but that was a completely different circumstance. Her people were, you know, dying and say, yeah, ready, from a physical condition. But yeah, man, the death with Dignity Act, I am totally for that. Like, while, while I don't understand a lot of suicides, one thing I will say is that you have the right to kill yourself. You should have the right. They try to make it like a legal issue where it's like well, you're going to be miserable and sick and a you know, a burden for the rest of for your family, for the rest of your life and it's just going to get worse and worse and you don't have the right to do that. Wow, man. I mean, I know that's a controversial subject and we could probably have a whole episode just on that, but man, we will. Yeah, that just drives me crazy. The whole, the fact that it's only unlike three states where they allow doctor assisted suicide. Man, that's to me. That's a crime. But life, life, knee, is a series of mistakes, right, Yep, we can both look back with some regrets and go wow, why the fuck did I do that? Suicide is the worst one. Yeah, because everybody who's committed suicide for the most part, made a mistake. Yeah, they didn't get the treatment they needed, they didn't you know, they didn't talk to somebody right, and it was the ultimate mistake and they killed themselves. I'm sure if they could say so now, they'd be like fuck, I should have yeah, did this or you know what, it could have should have right. So it's just one of those things, man. You just wish more people would realize that in time, and I sucks, it really does. I mean, like I said, while I sympathize with them, I I know personally all those low points that I thought that that was the only way out. I'm glad I didn't do it, you know, because in the long run I would have never gotten to where I'm at now. I never would have met some of the people have met now and life, life, keeps going. Man, there's one thing I've learned, it's that you know it's gone to keep going, and shit doesn't last forever. That whole line. This too shall pass. It's true. True, it is Ja man, you know so, except suicide. Yeah, well, know that, and it's so. It's right. That's where I called a mistake. That's what I mean. It's like, fuck, man, you came to that, that final realization. This is it. I can't fucking do this anymore, and whatever way you decide to do it, that's it. It's too bad, and I do stand by the fact that if you gave me enough fucking Hook is and fucking blow I'd be a little bit happier. Yeah, yeah, man, and I'm not trying to be a fucking funny Kyre, I'm serious. That's just my personality. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I feel like I feel like money could solve a lot of the problems we have, but yeah, I don't know. At the same time, I know I look at somebody. I don't know if we've I think we've talked about this before, but I look at somebody like Lane stalely from Alice and chains who, as we've mentioned, with other people they had it, like Larry Flint had enough money. So where they to where they could have a delivery of drugs to his house every day. And if you're the type of addict that he is or that I am pretty sure I am, if you gave me that much, that much access to what I needed, I wouldn't even leave the fucking house, man. I mean eventually you just kind of shut yourself off. Like I said, addiction. I'd like to think that addiction is if, if I had what I needed every day, that eventually I'd I'd be like, okay, now I can go out and do what I want to do because I've got what I need for the day, I've got the substance I need and now I can go out like a methodone clinic or whatever. But I just know myself and I know that if I have access to more, I'm going to do more and before long I wouldn't have time to do anything else. So, yeah, true. So, and if anybody who's listening to this does have a problem and things they're at that point, turn off the fucking podcast, call somebody gets some help. Seriously, man. All right, now, you got anything else you want to say? About this subject right now. You want to move on, I guess we can move on. Man, we've I do. I'm sure we could talk a lot more about this stuff. But yeah, it's just going to be a couple of dudes talking about a serious topic. And you know, yeah, I mean we have a lot of experience with addiction, yea, and we both mentioned that. We kind of gone through life using that as is our way of dealing with things. It's another thing too, if, if you're out there, you're abusing drugs, are you drinking too much because you just really ca can't deal with Shit. Stop, you know, I'm like...

...stop, like a magic stop, stop, all right, you know, no, but I mean go get some help. Yeah, because I think, to be honest with you, I will close with this, I would have benefited if I had found help at a younger rage. I really would have. Yeah, it would have helped me, and you would mention that, like you thought of it is like an authority figure, like fuck you, man, mom and dad can't control me. But boy, imagine if you'd stuck with it, right, I know, things could have changed for you. I know right. If I had taken a thing of the same way, if I had taken things more seriously, as you know, younger, if I'd realized them. Yeah, I think I could have saved myself a lot of pain. So take it from a couple of old people who made a lot of mistakes. If you get it when you're young, this is what they always said to me when I was young and detox and now I'm saying it's a younger people that are getting into treatment. If you get it now, you don't have to deal with it for the rest of your life. So yeah, I don't know. Yep, definitely all right, man. We're going to take a quick commercial break and when we returned the selling out sound off. Hey from the selling out show here and I want to tell you about a company I absolutely love, Mitten vaporscom. Whether you are a novice or an experience cloud competitor, matten vay Bruce has a wide variety of juices to tickle your taste buds and all the accessories you'll ever need. Mitten vaporscom always provides outstanding savings on superior babe products, shift fast and straight to your door. Right now, fans of the show can use code selling out for an additional thirty percent off. I'm enjoying mitten vapors Pinky, a sweetest smooth candy all day van and while this has become a personal favorite of mine, you could spend days trying all the flavors that they sell. Don't waste your time with all the coil killing chunk from the other vape companies out there. 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Shop studiocom today. Infirmary media. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Okay, we are back and on this soundoff. I asked on twitter what is your preferred way to relax, unwind and let all the stress fade away? I got a few responses here I liked. First one was from at war baby and she replied with a gift of Roller Skating. What do you think of Roller Girl? It's great. Humm. Now, that really caught me off guard. I was like, people actually roller skate anymore? Like I didn't even realize people still do that. I thought it's all rollerblading or whatever. Now. Yeah, well, everything's retro. People are listening to vinyl and people are using roller skates. Old School. Good for them. I will say I miss the Roller Skating Rink. Those are a lot of fun times. They're man. Sure, yeah, I'm smoking butts, fucking hit in the disco, man, fucking you know, four wheels of fury. Yeah, I enjoyed it, I sure, sure, all right. And then we have xxx, Miss Story, X, X X, as a lot of x is going on there. M she wrote pause and Pino. Is that how you say the Wine Pino? Yeah, I'm not a wine guy, I so I really don't know, but I guess that's a good way to relax right kick back. Hopefully you listen to us.

MMM, I'm assuming that she means Pinot Grigio, but there's Pino Noir to who knows? Okay, but there you go, you fancy motherfucker. Look at you go. Oh Man, I'm a veritable Somalia over here. You Smiley a okay, EILF PODCAST, Steve from that podcast. Check them all. They do movies. wrote lounging in a mineral bath on a snowy day in name I can't pronounce. Give it a tries. No, no, but it is Icelandic, with an icy viking beer in my hand with I assume is his girl, because he wrote at on and tidy Venus. He even added a little video of these. What do you guy? What do you call those little steam things where they called what like a sauna or yeah, but the outdoor was a natural ones, the spring, hot spring. Yeah, sure, okay, yeah, hot spring. Thank you. You know, this is why I keep you around. You know all this great stuff. I can and say, Pinyo, you're coming with that, the new aw, the Gray Gio or Griggio, whatever the fuck this shit is. I don't know. I just call it beer. You uncultured brute, you uncultured swy net. That's me. I really I don't know. Okay, but let me try this. I get this cute up on my phone, and this might be terrible for radio, but I might do it anyway. The name of the town is, did you hear that? MMM, me votten. Okay, cool, I just had to google that because I really couldn't say it. So shout out to me that and whatever. Me votten. Yeah, I don't know, I never been there by Iceland sounds like a fucking great place. Hell Yeah, that's one hell of a way to relax and let the stress all listen to super listen to some cigarettroast or some bork can hop in a hot spring. So was roller skates on? Yeah, man, right, why not? Over broke and we had talked a little bit earlier in the first segment about our ways to relax. I've mentioned comics and fucking Yep, I could say comics and sex by just like saying fucking yeah, and you mentioned playing music and stuff like that. But everybody's got their own way to chill out. Yeah, man, yeah, I enjoy that. I since I've met my girlfriend, carly, it's fun to go. Obviously dealing with the horses, brushing them, riding them, things like that. Yeah, there's all kinds of ways, men. I we live on a lake. It's nice to go in the water. I love the beach, all that stuff. Like I said, I've got really shot the horses. I've got no excuse to to keep, you know, fucking up and doing drugs, because I've got so many things that I have a million things. I can list of all the you know, how how can I chill out? How can I relieve stress? But, you know, rushing horses. Yeah, that's a weird one to me. I'm not a Horse Guy. Try it out, like, try it out. I don't know, if I wanted to kind of freak me out. These big ASS fucking animals, I know, one kick, yeah, and I'm fucked. Yeah, that's true. A cross side playing Banjo and Dayton. I don't have a sister, but I don't know dating my sister. Yeah, so dangerous animals, you know. Yeah, they can be. You're the horse whisperer. That what you are in age. No, I screamed their hair and you let scream. Adam, I'm not a whisperer. I'm fucking you, really, no, I'm just kidding. I just you fucking horse. I mean, what would you yell at a horse? I mean what would the thing be? I'd be like, I don't know, stop shitting in your stall so much. You let the horses inside. Listen, the horses be outside all day. You let him in. At the end of the day. They go in their stall in the first thing they do is start taking a piss. It's like well, thank God i they let me in so I can pee, and it's like great, now I have to clean that. You couldn't have pissed five minutes ago before I let you know that. You know, it's like having a kid. That's what I sell. Horses be out. Horses, be out horse, I don't yeah, said these horses be tripping. Listen. I want to thank everybody for taking the time out and twitter to responding. For those I did read, I appreciate it and if you ever want to reach out to the show, you can find us on twitter at selling out show or shoot us an email. Selling out show at GMAILCOM. We like to hear about, you know, the feedback, everything else, all that good stuff. We also have a call in line which is seven, seven, four, seven, one, one thousand nine hundred and ninety three, and I have that memorized and I don't memorize any fucking number, so that's pretty impressive. Yeah, that's important. Yep, call anytime you want. Whispers sweet nothings into our ears. Talk about, I don't know, brushing horses like fucking this Weirdo does, or you know, whatever the fuck you feel like. It doesn't matter. Just call. All right then, let's move on. We're going to take one more commercial break and when we come back, nate's notes day from the selling out show. Here to tell you about spunk loube. Spunk loube is a multi award winning mover can't use by professionals in the adult film industry. 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...and you can thank me later. What Day ends? What's Day? Frenzy Motor speedwhere watch me, green infected splint turbo blast the seals off the competition and is devastating Aspen Dragon ruling thundercarns, crank up the sixteen, volve madness in his overblown and deadly L Camino Mexica. Watch the fake boys rampage down the full page spread and interact. Mayheam with five Wednesday man head to head, nick in neck, roaring down the poll list of death every Wednesday while the electricity holds out. It's it's it's the professor friends show. It's a show past the friends, a show past friends. It's a show that's the friends show. If you like indie comics and also like podcasts, please try the professor frenzy show. Find the show in itunes search and facebook episodes tweeted out on at Professor Frenzy on twitter. Thank you. You're listening. Junes movie meeting for talking complete dust up your lps. It's time for nate. No, no, all righty here we are, facetoface, a couple of silver spoons, Dave and nate, and this is the time of the day. I just called the part of our show in the time of the day. But anyway, where you like to talk about music, you reminisce, sometimes about the good old days and sometimes you just talk about stuff you did listening to. What do you have for is this week? On Nate's notes. Growing up I got into bands like Metallica, more so megadeth. If I want to be honest, I always love the pretty countdown to extinction megadeth albums far more than anything METALLICA put out. But that's not the point of this monolog a dug anthrax as a kid and in the s Pantera was definitely the shit, but that was kind of it. As far as my metal credentials really got. By the time I was a teenager with my own tastes and music, it was all like underground punk stuff, industrial music and eventually electronic, experimental ambient soundscape stuff. The metal heads were guys with muscle cars and mullets. To me I was a snobby Asshole, I'll admit it. For some reason in my late s I picked up a copy of Didrik Soderlinden Michael Moynihan's book lords of chaos. It detailed the whole Scandinavian black metal phenomenon. In the s there were all these Norwegian metal heads who are inspired by s bands like Venom and bathy and Celtic frost, bands with a dark, unpolished satanic theme. They listen to American death metal acts like Morbid Angel and Cannibal Corpse too, but they grew disillusioned when those guys playing such dark, evil music were wearing high top sneakers and sweatpants. So a bunch of these isolated Nordic teenagers decided to take things more literally. They created their own form of heavy, blistering metal, but backed up their image with crazy actions that make gangster rappers look like school children. Calling their new sound black metal, a nod to the venom album of the same name. They burned churches, they carried around medieval weaponry and weren't afraid to use them. Certain members of the black metal scene actually committed murder and, in some cases killing members of other bands. The Norway sweet and black metal rivalry was as vicious or more than the whole American East Coast West Coast rap rivalries that were taking place around the same time. I could go on about this legendary phenomenon for hours. I find it super compelling. I don't know if it's my love of horror movies or my fascination with criminal elements of humanity in general, but when I picked up that book it was purely the story surrounding the music that interested me. Honestly, I still really wasn't into the music, but of course, being a fan of music, I ended up checking out some of these bands. The first ones that grabbed me were emperor and Dimmu Boardyear, both on the more symphonic end of the black metal spectrum. I instantly appreciated the songwriting, the use of synths and complex arrangements to create a real ominous, in larger than life atmosphere. Fear really grabbed me. They were my gateway drug into this world of heavy metal. From there I discovered one of my favorite bands to this day, enslaved. While their first albums were fairly traditional black metal, with blast beats and Tremolo picked guitars and screeching vocals, their sound grew really experimental over the years. They truly sound like no other band of heard, and the only way I can really describe them as like if pink floyd started writing black metal, very psychedelic, very atmospheric, trippy stuff.

I started to feel like I was discovering this exciting new world. By the time I was getting into all of this, there were years of material and so many subgenres of metal to discover. I didn't stay in this Scandinavian side of things for long. Once I was getting into the more raw, harsh side of that scene, with bands like mayhem, one thousand, three hundred and forty nine and Gor Garath, I was primed to move over to the death metal stuff that I had been missing out on. The first non black metal band that I really fell in love with was Liverpool's carcass. While their first few albums were as relentless guttural and non listener friendly as any grindcore act, there later stuff found a great balance between the heaviness and a sense of melody, still way heavier than anything METALLICA I've ever put out. They still knew how to write an interesting composition. There are fans that claim that carcass sold out when they started writing in that new way and that the shift from their first albums reek of future faction and symphonies of sickness to the more polished sounds of necroticism and heartwork where akin to the shift from injustice for all and METALLICA's black album. But as someone who came late to the party, I have a place in my heart for all of it, carcass, not METALLICA, because METALLICA's post injustice work sucks, if you ask me. From there I found Napalm death and how, during their time, they push the boundaries of speed and heaviness to new levels with their genre of grindcore. This style took musical cues from the heaviest metal bands infused it with the frantic, chaotic aspects of Punk. But we're most death metal was lyrically dealing with horror and Gore. Grindcore cided more with punk and often dealt lyrically with more social and political issues. Mind you, I'm only mentioning a couple of bands here, but along the way of discovered tons of acts in each of these subgenres. I realize that listeners who've been into this stuff their whole lives will have a lot of complaints about the bands that have neglected to mention, but it's a short segment, so cut me some slack and rest assured that the bands I'm mentioning are just a tiny percent of this fascinating musical world that have finally found. I tend to gravitate towards bands that do something a little different with the medium and that adds something unexpected or unique to the traditional sounds. So, while I'm mentioning fairly obvious acts here to shows some of the landmarks on this journey of mine, the ones that really get me going, or bands like cattle decapitation, who have may have started along the lines of death metal or grindcore, they eventually found a sound that can't really be classified as either, and, despite being far too heavy to appeal to anyone but a fan of the heaviest stuff, they add a sense of melody that shouldn't fit, but really fucking does for some reason. They also happen to be really down to Earth dudes. I went to see them last year and they're probably the most approachable band I've ever met, especially in a genre that sometimes filled with meathead tough guys. France's Gojira also is doing something cool with melody and heaviness. Both Gojira and cattle decapitation right lyrics that deal primarily with environmental and social issues. They don't have the best image of humanity, despite being really friendly dudes. I want to wrap this up, but man, I feel like I could talk for hours about metal at this old age in my life. It's funny how, during a time when so much popular music is lifeless and dull or just devoid of anything resembling talent or innovation, for example, the recent infestation of soundcloud mumble rappers, don't get me started. It's really so much good shit out there, though. You just have to look for it, and in this age of the Internet, it's easier than ever to delve into uncharted musical waters. Of course, eventually you want to actually support these bands by buying their stuff, but it it's so easy nowadays to discover the ones that are worth buying. I think it's weird that I'm now almost forty years old and I'm just kind of discovering this. I mean, it's been ten years now that I've been into it, but it's it seems like most people that I know were metal heads in their younger ages, you know, there their teen years or whatever, and I remember deve you, you still have a Cannibal corpse single that I was always intrigued by. And now, yeah, now I'm getting into Cannibal Corpse. You know, it's it's weird. I'm late to the party, but I'm pretty fucking into it. Man. I don't know fucking labels. I you know, just this hearing you speak, you know, passionately about this black metal and stuff. I mean, for one, it's not for me. Okay, I'm going to be honest with you. It's not my cup of team. But I've always had a thing against labeling something right. I don't like how it's like this has to be fucking emo core, funk, pop, folk or whatever. It's like we just fucking throwing all this fucking shit in a bag and shaking it up...

...so we can just label it, you know, sell him whatever. But here I kind of get it, because this shits. I'm just fucking Pure Evil Shit, man. Well, I always said the same thing. I was always like, well, you, you, you subgenre music down to like such specifics that it's sickening. But to be honest, as a listener, I kind of it's easier to know. I mean you can kind of tell by a band's image if they're a black metal band, for example, because they have a certain look. For the most part, you know the guys and that make black metal. Usually a lot of them were like this corpse paint, they call it, with the white makeup, with the black fucking around the eyes and all this, and or they wearing leather and spikes and all this. It's kind of it's silly. I admit a lot of it's very, very campy and whatnot, but I'm not interested in that. As an older person who's a musician a fan of music, I will say that metal and all these subgenres of it are they're a style of music that most casual listeners would think is just noise. It sounds very noisy, it sounds very disorganized to a casual listener, but when you really listen to some of this, it's the most intricate music, the hardest to play, the fastest. Like I'm blown away. I mentioned cattle decapitation in this they do their drummer is like fast. I can't even move my body that fast, never mind like keep a beat, a steady beat. Like these dudes are are they're not human. I swear to got that. But it's fascinating to me and to you know what, man, I don't care how cheesy it is. I don't care if I'm an old guy in a young man's you know, seen I'm finding something. We talked about mental health and things that bring us peace. I fucking get sucked into a as a weird one, it maybe, but you know, I don't judge me, man, I'll listen. Dude, it helps. It's like I get sucked into albums like I haven't since I was a teenager. Like I mean, I've been into music my whole life, but, dude, I'm finding myself as excited by the prospect of like, maybe cattle decapitation is writing a new album. That thrills me more than, like, as a kid, the new Nirvana would have you know, or whatever it's. You got your black metal magazine and pulling out there the cattle decapitation of photo and taping on your walls. Scotch Damn it. I mean right, I kind of understand what you're saying, because it's like Mike Pattin right, we both really appreciate the front man from faith. I'm more a Tomahawk Phantomas and you know he's been all up. Mr Bungles and his solo stuff is really hard to listen to, but you're gonna have to search for the beauty in the madness. Right it's there. It really is some innovative stuff going on and it's like, I don't want to sound like to artsy farts or nothing, but it takes a certain ear to hear it. So I can, I can understand that good. Now when you're talking about the whole corpse, corpse makeup. Is that what it's called? Corps paint? Yes, I was thinking, like you got to be fucking hardcore, like you imagine these fucking guys right now. They put this shit on and a lot of them just take it off when they're done with their show. But some of these fucking guys that you mentioned and the really sinister fucking guys that you take about with medieval weapons and everything, they never do. They lead themselves fucking painted up seven and you associated that with the gangster rappers not be, you know, be as hard as he's black metal guys, and you're absolutely right, because gangster rappers or whatever be like Oh, this fucking toilet papers not soft enough on the bus, and these fucking guys like just live and filth and never stop and they kill each other. They literally fucking kill each other. I know, so they do take it to an extreme. Yeah, but yeah, it is weird. Man, like you're like, Oh, you know, back in the day it was one kind of music or you've always been a fairly diverse listener music. I shouldn't say that, but still just say. I'm now on the verge of forty. Give me my fucking death metal, dude, odd choice. That's this life in reverse. It's a little weird, but I don't know if I feel like I was maybe a little prejudiced towards metal as a kid. I just I I was snobby, like I said, I felt like, Oh, you're listening to whatever Cannibal Corps or whatever it is. Like I just looked at it like your meathead, metal head, whatever your and I was. I was so much more cultured with my weird, obscure fucking electronic music. What I was a snobby idiot kid. And I mean if music brings you joy, that's what it's for. Music is to bring you happiness, bring you joy absolutely get lost in, and I am getting lost in death metal and grindcore and all these and and and just quickly I finished with the with the subgenres. We were talking about subgenres and how, Yep, they get a little sickening. But I will say that it's a little easier to to determine what a band is if you know, okay, well,...

I'm not going to like this because I don't like, you know, new metal, groove Shit, like you know whatever, or I I if you're not into black metal, okay, well, I'm not going to listen to a band called fucking priests sodomizer with the I can and you see a picture of the band you like, I know that's black metal. Not going to like it, or whatever it's. I I get sickened by all the subgenre labels and shit, but I see the purpose for them now a little more than I used to. Like, I don't know, they're there are some genres that but but again, then I guess that would cut me off from appreciating a bit. If I automatically wouldn't listen to a band because they are dubbed whatever, you know, industrial, totally Goth metal, then I I may not fight like I may like a band that's in this genre if I weren't already prejudiced towards them because I heard that. I don't know it's, but listen, name. It's not dad music. You got to be in a dad music now. You can't be going on a trip to Mickey Das with fucking grindcore fucking blasting in the cat with kids in the back seat. You Need Kenny loggins for that. You can't, you can't be fucking you know. I mean, yeah, I mean it should. You're going to give them mental scarring. Well, I wish you had told me that earlier, because I'm always a rank and death metal when I'm driving around with Joey in the car with my my girlfriend's son. I just I definitely. What does he think about it? Um, he doesn't say much, but he just kind of accepts it. It's it's interesting. But but, like I said, he's wondering how many barrel rolls it's going to take for him to get out of the car and be safe. You know, like you must think you're fucking nut job. Like, I mean, I'm no disrespect to you, but that's some serious shit. Yeah, yes, some of it's a little rough, but I mean, I'm not listening to stuff. Even if, even if, say, there's questionable lyrics that a kid maybe shouldn't hear, you can't really tell what they're saying that I'm listening. This is true. This is true. No, no, it's just yeah, I just really guttural screaming and everything else. But Hey, it's interesting. I'm glad you're passionate about it. I'm glad you're into him, I really am. It's just me and you have taken completely different paths. Yeah, man, yeah, when you're young you like fucking crank it up. It's going to be louder, is going to be heavier. And now for me, man, I want my Michael McDonald, and I'm not joking. You know, my huge Michael. I don't Dan Fogelberg all that Shit. Fuck right. Yeah, I love that bread. Yet, thank you. Just took the words out of my mouth and I can just sit and chill and fucking totally enjoy that. Yeah, but but if you pop on cattle decapitation, yeah, I'm jumping out of my seat and I'm fucking, you know, screaming magic. Turn that shit down. Yeah, as Oh, yeah, I might make a seat. I'm so diverse in my taste. I would make a mix that would be like, yeah, Cannibal Corps Song by Dan Fogelberg, maybe some aesop rock or some kind of hip hop. I like it all man and I can ease and it depends on my mood, of course, but I still yeah, I'm pretty diverse in my taste. I I try not to discount any style of music whole heart, like just whole cloth. Like I I mentioned the whole new wave of Mumble rappers. Like I'm a big fan of hip hop, terrible. Oh my God, I've always loved horrible. The thing I love about hip hop is the the word play. That's what it's all about. It's all about clever word play, being a better lyricist than the other guy. That's why they battle and all this. But these new guys, they're literally some of them are literally not saying anything like that. I've seen interviews where these rappers are like yeah, I don't even know what I said on that, and they'll be kids at my concerts trying to sing along and I'm like, I don't even know what the lyrics are to that, because they were. Most of them are so zanexed up or on whatever coding Syrup or whatever they're fucked up on, that they're in the studio just kind of homes and they they honestly don't know what they're saying. It's all about the vibe in the beat and that's ruining hip hop to me. But that's a subject for another day, and I don't know who knows. You are loaded with subjects for another day. Ain't Shit, man, we're gonna do. This show is going to be around for like forty years. Yeah, man, because we've got a new what are you gonna listen to it? Forty, though, forty more years from now, when you're like eighty, um, will be the music that's going to be fucking knocking your socks off, I think, just either sludge metal or some kind of just noise music genre. Meed to death. I'll be into throbbing gristle and all the bands that are just banging metal and stirs, indeed, Milly about and all these bas I'm already into them. But yeah, I know, hey, you know, some things never change. I still love faith. No more. Me Too. I brought them up a few times and I if I'm cleaning the house, but I kind of do things, you know, time in a place, situational stuff. If my kids around, I think that the most I ever make himiss new is like Huey Lewis and the news. I'm not even joking, like I really don't go yes or something like that, you know, like these old s bands,...

...tears for fears, Shit like that. But I love tears for fears. Yeah, but I mean, I wouldn't be blasting faith the more than my kid around. I don't know, just me. Yeah, I'M A dad. I become that guy, got shitty jokes, I play crappy music. You're doing your job to him. Yeah, yeah, I'm doing my job. Yeah, I'm sometimes I'll play a little David Bowie around. I'm a little let's dance, that kind of Shit. But my yeah, man, so now you know music. The funny thing is here is what you're saying. Isn't just about music. It's a lesson for life, though. Okay, this is all based on don't judge a book by its cover. Don't. Don't look at something at the surface and think you know what it is. Right. You know, life needs to be explored. Just cannot be easily explained by looking at something. You know, you gotta get you fucking your hands in the dirt. Wow, man, listen to you, Yo, I know, analytical and well, that's great. Send Me Your my day. Listen. that a suicidal yeah, suicidal tendencies. Yeah, infectious GROOVES, man, those that fucking Mike Murror. Yeah, Guy, was I want to happen to him. Oh it, dude, I just I was watching a live video there. It's dude, suicidal is playing like they play festivals. Suicidals still around. Mike Muir playing a carnival. Mike Mir Looks like an old biker now. You know he's just he's still rocking the Bandana down around his eyes and yeah, yeah, well, I was trying to say. With the carnival they probably playing like state fairs. Now they're playing a dude. That's the thing. I feel like I'm getting into this scene at such a great time because it's there. There are these huge festivals. Granted, I have to go to Europe for most of them, there's all these great festivals, whether it's Vakan or hell fest or all these. There's festivals with, dude, hundreds of bands and man, I mean I know there's some in America, but we don't get a lot of the best bands, like some, oddly enough, some of these bands that were killing people and whatnot, they're not allowed to travel to America for some reason. So, you know, I don't get a chance to see some of these bands. But I just went you and draw the line at murder, though, to purchase a concert ticket. NOPE, I didn't know. The fucking guy can't. Well, there's there was, you know, I love that. I don't fucking know that ass. Yeah, isn't that? I mean, I'm just came out to rock out with my cock yet. Come on, Dude. I mean there's there's this one band that I kind I never really got there were one of the first, first black metal bands that started the whole thing. They called Burs M. it's really only one guy and he's specifically the dude. His name is Varg, the singer of Varg, well, basically the only musician in the band. He is the one I was referring to when I said killing other band members, because he he notoriously killed a member of a band that he used to play in and whatnot. Is a whole long story. People can read the book or do some research if they want. But the point is I don't dislike his music or his personality because of that murder. It's just that in he went to jail for years. He went to prison for like eight years or whatever it is in Norway. For some reason murder, the most time you can do is like eight years. There's that's another you know, we talked about prisons before. The prison system in Norway is it's something we can, I don't know, look to as a as an inspiration. Maybe some point. What a pin anyway exactly show will another subject that will discuss later. But but the thing is he gets out and now he seems like this borderline white supremacist, white nationalist kind of I don't know. I have a lot of friends that really like his music, but I have trouble getting past his politics and has nothing to do, would say, has nothing to do with the murder. It's it's it's because he's turned into this fucking right wing nut job. But yeah, but that's that's fucked up right in itself. The fact that you said that is because we're talking about Verdu the praying Manti's right. He fucking kills other members of the band that he's in. And then you're like, well, you know, the politics bothers me, not the murder. Yeah, and it made me made me think, okay, just listening to you as a friend, that, let's say there's a country act, there's all fucking Magana, right, fucking trumped out. You would never fucking listen to that shit. What you know? Of course not. And now you're saying your problem with the praying Mantis guy is, hey, listen, it's the fact that he's all fucking white supremacist and shit. I think murder should be the first thing you think of when you go, I don't know about this guy, he's a questionable character. Should I really be supporting what he produces? Right, but if you knew the guy that I granted I don't know him personally, but the guy that he killed was also kind of a, you know, questionable character. Yeah, the guitars from this band mayhem. He was literally probably the guy that you could point to and say founded the whole black metal scene. He was also this kind of kind of shifty character that was directing younger sick offense, you know, to go burn churches and do all this shit. But wouldn't do any of it himself. He was kind of a yeah, I don't know, he was just he was all...

...about promoting this like dark evil image and didn't really ask. Oh my God, Dude, I could go on for it. Like I said, you know, this is another subject that we could do a whole fucking episode on. But you wouldn't coming this Christmas from the Hallmark Channel, the slack death metal. Yeah, like, Jeez, this is quite the fun. And this is all on the book you're talking. Yeah, I mean that's just a small dude. That's like a chapter of the book. There's a million stories like that. The singer the same band that the guy was killed. The the band mayhem that the guy was murdered. They're their first big spe out there first, but one of their more popular singers actually killed himself and that was like a famous thing. And the guy who was murdered before he was murdered, obviously he came home to find the singer had blown his head off. He took pictures, one of which became the cover of one of their kind of a live album, supposedly kind of a bootleg, but the cover of this album is a guy with his head blown half off and and then he took fragments of the skull. The legend is that he made like soup out of the breath of brain pieces and whatnot, but I've heard that's not true. But what he did do was make necklaces with pieces of the skull and gave them to like the innermost circle of this black metal scene. Back then. This is all like lovely. Yeah, this is a like twenty five years ago or whatever. This is a long time ago, but the scenes kind of died down a little bit since then. But Oh good, I'm glad to hear that. But it's this is a good thing. It's IT'S A it's an interesting, you know, origin story to this scene. So it's yeah, with no experience in this whatsoever. You know what that description reminds me of? It's from when we were kids, was, or teenagers rather, not young children. Gg Ol oh man gg was another. Yeah, another, just a fucking complete sick Oh fucking shouldn't even be walking the earth human being. And he's not anymore. Yeah, he's not anymore. But that's another just fucking crazy story of rock and roll. Like people look at like iggy pop or something. I think that fucking guy. He's off the wall. Keith Moon Right, is fucking just insane. No, Geg all true, yeah, true, but it's almost like they were like the healthy right versions, you know, because gg Allen, which is a fucking pig, us a human fucking scum. So these guys, I mean sounds like a very interesting book to read if someone's like into true crime especially or something like that. But but fuck man, these guys are fucking evil sons of bitch. Well, like, I said that, when I first picked up the book it had nothing to I wasn't even into the music. I just the story fascinated me. It's interesting to even people that aren't. And there's, mind you, there's there's countless documentaries and movies. Just go to youtube or Google or whatever and search you know, black metal, Norway, s whatever. Look any of that shit and it's full of interesting stories, Dark Shit and, yeah, a bunch of confused teenagers. When you're younger, it sounds they're like these larger than life characters that that are all, you know, characters in an interesting, compelling story. When you get older, you like these were a bunch of fucking idiot kids that were into metal and we're like, you know, you you look at a little differently the older you get. You're just like these are but, yeah, idiots, you know. But but it's yeah, it's an interesting story. So, yeah, it's like I used to have this fucking picture I ripped out of a magazine to Glenn Danzig hanging on my wall and he was like a fucking hero. And now, you know, he's like, I don't know, allergic to peanuts or something. And Yeah, yeah, he's more I'm just saying he's more human. Yeah, it's not like, you know, you make these fucking guys like deed, he's like fucking Gods that are going to, yeah, change your life or something. In their music is the end all be all. But in all reality, yeah, they just fucking Yep, Dan's danks like the rest of us. Right, there's a famous picture, well, a picture online. Yeah, Glenn Danzi. Yeah, yeah, shopping for cat food and there's a cat food, a kitty or kitty litter. Perhaps Kitty Litter, I don't know. Yeah, I might have the other way. Yeah, he's a cat guy like me, you know. Yeah, there you go, Dan guys have maybe you like him even more. You go getting a Danzig. Now that's what can be listening to the answer my question from earlier, forty years from now you'll be all fucking grooving out to black summer. I Love Danzig. It's funny. I know you were. You were a Danzer fan when we were younger. First Show, first show I went to. Yeah, well, highest Danzig and White Zombie didn't show. Wow, because in the blizzard. So Fuck White Zombie. Wow, but yeah, for sure. You know, it's funny. I saw White Zombie with the Melvin's, who you were a big fan of years. Love. Yeah, but yeah, man, that's a great first show. I don't know. Yeah, back when chuck biscuits, chuck biscuits was still alive. Right, Yep, Chucky, Chucky, great drummer. He's dead now, but you know who isn't? This whole show has been about death. No, suicide, fucking terrible. Knock the metals.

I need to pick them up. I need I need to do something right now to kind of lift my spirit. Go read some comics and fuck something. I'm gonna fuck while reading a comic. That's I need. Fuck the Lamic. No, no, I see a girl with a nice big fucking dairy air I can lay a old issue a superman on it and just go into town with some spunk, Lube and right. You know, that sounds really fucking disgusting now that just came out of my face. It's better than brushing a horse. Yeah, I can't know, no argument. There you go, no argument right. Hi, man. You got anything else you want to say to these fine folks before we let them go about their day? We've set a mouthful as usual. I do want to thank each and every one of you for tuning in and listening. We appreciate the living crap out of it. A virtual hugs for all of you. I am Dave. That is nate, and this has been selling out infirmary media.

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