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Selling Out Show
Selling Out Show

Episode 5 · 4 years ago

Ep.#5 Prison

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Have you ever been curious about life on the inside? We provide a first hand account of survival in prison. The system, addiction, routines and what one learns to appreciate while being locked away is discussed in detail. All this plus Bob Barker and how to barter behind bars.

Infirmary media. You were now to Dick to the selling out podcast. When it does is breaches into your brain chemically and no, cat your happiest memory chemically and then blocks on to that emotion, releases it chemically, and then it keeps your happy, happy. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the selling out show, a podcast about the world we live in, posted by a couple of knuckleheads who screwed things up at every turn. I am one of your host, David Schultz, and by my side is my good bud nate Gores in ski. Nate, how are you today, great man, Summer Day and I haven't been picking up poop for once in a long time, so it's been a nice day. Once in forever. This is like once in a lifetime thing. Man, I thought you just make something up like just to kind of go with the theme, you know. Well, I cleaned some litter boxes, but that's not really that's just part for the course. I don't even need to to talk with that lumpage. Yeah, okay, everybody, this time out we have a I think it's a fairly interesting main topic and it's going to be about prison. Now, nate, I've only spent one night in the clink, but you are a little bit more of an expert in this subject, I'd have to say. Sadly, yeah, sadly, but sadly, but you got some stories to tell and we're going to explore some of those today. Sure, sure, sure. Can I tell you one quick thing, though? Absolutely. My one night is in jail was because of a drunken, disorderly hmm. I was a complete notter idiot who got into a fight with a bouncer at a bath because I claim my jacket was inside, but I'd even wear a jacket to the bar that night. But when I know, I had to do the ride in the Pattiwagon, which was a nightmare, and when we they took me to the jail cell, I did the whole nobody knows think, but there's you can't really clang the bars because they have like a plastic lass, like say glass Lexiglass, over the bars. So I was just the most annoying prick all night long to the police and the other people in the jail cells. You know, you're making them do their job, man. That's that's that's your responsibility as an inmate, especially when you've been drinking when they lock you up. Come on, man, you're not going to make it easy for them. You know they're going to you. They're giving you a rough night. You can give them a rough night to so. But that wasn't my intention per se. I was just angry that I was being locked up like an animal right and actually, while we were in the drunk tank, there was another guy in there who had the like these crocodile boots, but they're a pointy and I remember it just being like Hey, iron sheek, what are you in here for? You kick your Old Lady with those boots, you know. And and dude, I had to go to court for this, I don't know, a month later or something, and I saw him in there and he looked at me goes hey, there wild man, and I'm like God, I guess I made a lasting impression on Crocodile boot guy. Yeah, it would have been funny if it well, I don't know about funny, but it would have been interesting if he was in there for like a domestic charge and it was like a salt with a deadly weapon and it was those crocodile boots. He was pretty quiet. I don't know if it's because I freaked him out, or maybe, like you're saying, he was in there for that reason. I have no idea, but that's my little story and I know you got a whole bunch more, and I don't know if you want to elaborate a little bit on the system in itself, because a lot of people were becoming aware now of the whole privatization of prisons right that's in the news because a lot of politicians are invested in these, these prisons, and it's a cash cow for them to have people locked up. How do you feel about that? Well, yes, of course. I have plenty of opinions about government policy regarding prisons. It's pretty pretty near and dear to my heart. I mean the problems inherent in private prisons, thoughts about the war on drugs and general and how much of a failure it's been. I mean, yeah, the private prison industry is problematic in that you're basically banking on people to screw up and and taking time away from them putting them in prison. Is it becomes a profitable thing. That's that's your goal, right is is to make sure you're filling these cells and when that's the case, it's like. I don't know it. It just seems so sinister to have somebody profiting over, you know, crimes being...

...crimes taking place and the punishment and the person atoning for them. It's I don't know, that's shady as hell. I having been someone that's been incarcerated and seeing what it's like in there and how they gradually have they take more and more things from the prisoners, which most people aren't too concerned about because to most people it's like these are just prisoners, these are, you know, these are the dregs of society. I'm not too concerned with how comfortable they are, but but dude, people are in there for years sometimes and it's like you maybe, yeah, sure, you're you've done something messed up one day or whatever it may have been, and then for years you may have you may feel like you're a different person and to have atoned for whatever you've done. I mean you're changed person after while. Sometimes some of these people are genuinely decent people in there who made a mistake. Talking about the whole privatizing of prisons thing, you know, they're putting people in there from minor crimes right because they got to fill the seats. Right, that's how they make their money. You know, they get a jam these places full of people, you know. So, yeah, whether it's smoking a Jibba or whatever the case may be, it's like all right, throw them, throw them in there. That's money in our pockets, motherfucker. Yeah, I mean, you definitely get a unique perspective on things when you've been on the receiving end of a lot of these laws and you spend spend time behind the proverbial bars. I mean, the main thing you notice when you get locked up is how many of these quote menaces to society are just people with drug problems. Right, basically, who would? Who would be better served by treatment, because ultimately what they have is a mental disorder. Don't get me wrong, I meant tons of people in jail or prison who are probably there deserved and and, yeah, and it's it may be the most appropriate place for some of them. You know, some people have trouble getting along with others even without drugs. But you know, of course many addicts, if they've wound up locked up, are at the point where they are making life difficult for other people. But I can't shake the thought that if, if we handle drugs differently as a nation, that a lot of these problems would disappear, the cells would open up and you know, I mean the whole black market would would vanish once you make something legal. I know it's a controversial subject, but I mean we're just shooting the shit here, you know, right and Shuit. Yeah, but dude, you look at a place like Portugal. I don't want to get off on a total tangent here, but you get you look at Portugal and you wonder why we haven't followed their lead. Because in two thousand and one Portugal became the first country to like decriminalize possession and consumption of all illegal substances, alicit substances, like, rather than being arrested, all those people that are getting caught with a personal supply, you know, not necessarily the dealers, but they they might be given a warning, a small fine, or or they're directed towards treatment. I mean, yeah, and as a result, right, but dude, as a as a result, over the next few years after doing this, they saw huge drops in drug use, HIV and hepatitis infection rates, overdose deaths, guess what, and also incarceration rates dropped. You know, it's like, yeah, it's I don't know, man, it's but hey, you know what the thing is, though, when the thing that had to happen, because, I mean, they were at their peak, I guess, in Portugal, of drug problems, the OPIOID crisis, specifically, back in the S, and it took until two thousand and one for the laws to change, and that's basically because public perception had to change. Like in America, we're still at this point in America where people look at an addict as a dirty person with a moral issue, and and that's, you know, that's really got to change. It's like we're not bad people trying to get, you know, good, we're sick people trying to get well for you know. So I don't know. I mean that's a tangent about about drug policy and whatnot, but that leads to what we're talking about here with prison. So I mean it does tie in right. Yeah, you know, and I'm probably going to say this a lot this episode, but if you don't mind me asking, you know, because you've been there, so I don't want to be. It might be a sensitive thing for you, I don't know, but I want to ask anyway. How long were you in prison for? Well, okay, so it was a chain of incarcerations through my S. I had served my first time. I served a year. I was out for a little while, maybe a year, and then I went back in for I think eighteen months. Then I was out for a little while, I went back in for nine months. All told, my s were a decade where I spent about half of it, just over half of my s I spent locked up, and the rest of the time...

I was either using on the streets or in facilities or whatnot, you know, the ABS and detoxes. But yeah, but I spent just over, I think, five years total between twenty one and like technically in my early s. But but yeah, so, I mean I've got a little experience a decade. Yeah, you know, in and out. I I spent half a decade of the decade. But yes, yeah, over the course of a decade I spent about half of it launcher. So yeah, no, I met a lot of interesting people and learned a lot of things about a part of society that most people don't get to see. So, yeah, when I talked to you, is kind of funny sometimes when you bring up some of the lifestyle things in jail, but one of which is products. You always gave me that kind of stuff. The other day, you tell me, is Bob Barker Line of like jumpers or something. Okay, makes a coffee, you know, let us know what's going on in there. WHO's making all this junk? Okay. So it's interesting you mentioned the Bob Barker thing because I was just doing a little research today because I knew, I knew we'd be talking about this. And when we go to prison, when I'd end up there, you see on the boxer shorts, on the uniforms, on the shoes that they give to broke people who don't have shoes when they get locked up, you see Bob Barker Company and everyone talks about there's this story about how Bob Barker had a son who had a criminal past and Bob Barker heard that his son didn't have the necessary toiletries for some reason or whatever, so he and and things like that. So he ended up getting involved. Okay, so what I learned was that this is all bullshit. The Bob Bark Dude, the Bob Barker, who does this, who makes all these products or whatever, is not that that's our guys at yes, yeah, blame you know, snopes for reigning on our parade here. Yeah, fuck you, snow, but I want to come on down. It turns it turns out that the Bob Barker was actually, I guess, like a senator from some other state or something. But yeah, I really wish it could have been like tacked onto his happy Gilmore Persona, you know, like wow, this Bob Barker dude is pretty cool for an old guy, but he didn't want to get the prisoners spade or now dirt. Going to be careful there with old bobby boy. It's it's a good story. It's one of those things where the where the urban legend is better than the the truth. But what what I will say is that the there's a company nowadays that supplies all of the products that are available for purchase when you're when you're in car serrated. There's not like a store you can go to. You're not carrying cash. Every every inmate has an account and people can come and drop money off on your account, visitors and whatnot, or if they're feeling, you know, generous, or sometimes you get a job while you're locked up or you're somehow earning money and and that money goes on your account. It's all you know. It's all on some database and then you get an order form, you fill it out and within a few days the big shipment arrives on the block and everyone's happy and it's like Christmas morning. You get all your all your cant seen and the people that can't afford canteen are looking out their cell doors at everyone else getting theirs and they look like sad puppies that you know who they're like. But so people aren't making license plates like we see in the movies. I mean there may be still some kind of prisons that do that, but a lot of the time now it's I mean the jobs you find in there are usually cleaning up the block you are on. Sometimes you're in a work release block where you're allowed to leave the facility and actually go to an outside job, but those jobs are are hard to come by. There's a lot of people in there waiting for them. You get on a list and you know you're waiting for a job to open up, which means you're waiting for someone to wrap up their sentence or you're waiting for them to get, you know, in trouble and get sent to their home, you know, the solitary. But yeah, I mean paid jobs are hard to find in there. So what a lot of people turn to? There are a lot of ways to make money that don't you know, aren't over the counter, so to speak. You are there. They're under the table sort of jobs as as in you got people that are good artists and will draw a portrait of, you know, another inmates kid who or something like it. Like say, Hey, I have this photo of my son. Can you draw a nice portrait of him? And that stuff's worth money in there. Man, the barter system is alive and well in prisons. Like people will do your laundry for you by hands, because...

...you send your your clothes to the laundry service in prison, it's sometimes comes out stained and gross, like I don't trust my laundry being sent in and washed with everyone else's stuff. For some reason it just always comes back gross and and really wrinkly into I don't know. And so there are people on the blocks that will hand wash your stuff and in their cells and it kills time for them, like because your board and there a lot of prison is just you know, not finding ways to kill boredom. So these people are washing clothes, Huh. And then they get paid for it, you might you know when and and the way they get paid for it. They say, okay, every shirt I wash, I charge a candy bar or a couple of Romans soups or whatever. You know. They they're they're paid in canteen items, the items you buy, you know. So those items. Can we get back to that real quick here? You know, let's talk about the Larry Zonka sports we just spelled the whole Bob Barker thing. Now we know it's not the prices, right guy, some other crusty old fuck. But what about some of the other products in there? Are there any notable celebrities? Are On prison stuff? Okay, yes, so it's odd, but and I'm not very knowledgeable on sports, but one thing I noticed was that the company that does supply all these, the toilet trees and the some of the cookies and snacks that you get, they utilize certain celebrities. For example, I noticed I was buying shaving cream and it was Dan deardorf shaving claim. It's got a picture a Dan deardorf smiling face. There you go. Yeah, and then there'll be like no mare garcia para cookies, for example, or something like that. You know, I'm there. There's a lot of sports personalities that you don't really see as much anymore, but now their faces are popping up on cookies in jail or shaving cream, and so it's yeah, it's interesting. I don't know where they get hooked up with those kind of endorsements, but you know, good for them and they must be pals with Bob Barker. Yeah, that's the only thing I can think. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I mean it's weird. There's the system I've always been involved in. I've been in Worcester County and when I went to the state in Massachusett. Yeah, Massachusetts exactly. That's why it's getting it. Massachusetts has their own way of doing things and every state is different. But what I've noticed is over the years the Department of Justice Nationally seems to have moved to this one company that supplies all the canteen items. It's it's their business. Specifically, is the the stuff they sell in prisons. It's you know, they're the coffee, you get the yeah, the toiletaries, all that stuff. Is All supplied by this company called Keif Kfe, keief services, and they, yeah, they have their own way of doing things. They must have some warehouse full of Dan Deardorf shaving cream somewhere and they send it out to the different prisons each week. And Yeah, you get your stuff, but George form it has to have his finger in there somewhere, I would imagine. I would imagine I guy fucking hawks anything. He would hawk a tumor. Yeah, he's making some money. But yeah, they used to the Worcester County Massachusetts used to have an actual store. When I started going to jail back you know, twenty some odd years ago, they had a store at the Worcester jail that each block, one by one, would on Thursday or whatever day your block had canteen day. You'd go to this store. They actually would pick the items off the shelf for you. They were behind like a cage. You'd go there, you'd order, you know, I want and they actually had name brand stuff. They had townhouse crackers, they had oreo cookies, they had Peter Pan Peanut butter whatnot. Eventually they moved to this system where it's all by Keith. You order it it comes in from outside. I don't know if that's due to like the people that worked in the store. Maybe something shady happened where they were passing drugs or whatever it was. Usually it's a security issue that makes them crack down to, you know, to some new system, and there goes a name brand shit. Yep, now, so long. Yeah, now you get all this generic coffee and stuff that's nowhere near as good, but you you deal with what you can. One thing that I want to say, though, is that when you I'm a huge coffee drinker. I drink so much coffee on the outside and when you're inside there's not much else to do, so you you tend to drink coffee all day and...

...just add a boredom and it's the closest thing to a drug that you usually get in there. So it makes you a feel good and you know it's something to do. So what I noticed was that over the years they started taking away the creamer and the sugar. So now all they sell is sugar substitute and they sell a powdered milk that you can buy. But I was I was wondering why they stopped selling coffee creamer and it turns out coffee creamer is highly flammable and if you have some way to spark it, it can actually it flares up. I think magnesium sons in there. Yes, I'm kind of magnesium and so and sugar. They stopped selling sugar because people use sugar to make home brew and things like that. It helps the alcohol ferment or whatever. So they they say you can still buy sugar, but you're buying individual packets of sugar like you'd get at a at a Duncan donuts for free. They're selling each packet of that sugar for like a quarter that, which is which is another issue. Everything is so expensive in there. You're only allowed to spend say, fifty dollars a week or whatever, which some people don't even have fifty dollars on their books, and you end up spending so much. I mean the the Raman soups, which on the street you're getting ten for a dollar or whatever they are in there. They the last time I was in they were about a dollar each and I'm sure it's more expensive now because things just tend to go up in price, you know, as time goes by, inflation supplying demand. It's sad man, they definitely and again, nobody really cares about these and nobody cares that they're charging inmate a dollar Roman soup, because they're like Crimea River, you know. Yeah, you robbed a store, are you did this or that, so you're you know, I say, take my shoelaces, but don't take my coffee stuff, don't take my sugar. Yeah, you mentioned the barter system. Is really big inside there. What about what about relationships in general, like making friends, becoming associated with other people, because a lot of us will have like the preconceived notion, you know what you see on TV, that you go in and you're like the fish or whatever the case may be, and you can become somebody's bitch Shin on and on and on. What was your experience with interacting with others in the slam? Okay, so when you first walk in, there are a handful of people in every block that like to try to intimidate people as they walk in and they'll yell stuff out their cell doors and and it usually is something like that fish or or they make some some comments trying to intimidate whoever's coming in, but usually it stops after the person gets to their cell and the doors shut and usually it's it's it's nowhere near the the situation you see in movies. Things happen, people are victimized and if you go in there and you're a troublemaker and you have trouble getting along with people, which a lot of people do, they're locked up. You know a lot of people are in right. Yeah, so those people tend to have issues and get into a lot of fights or whatnot. But personally, I've never been someone who rocks the boat. I'm somebody who can usually get along in any situation. I I I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of confrontation. I'm somebody that likes to get along. I'm somebody that likes to have conversations with people and get along with people. So when I go in there, I'm not abrasive enough of a person to always be rubbing people the wrong way and I tend to find other people that are similar. So when there are people that are the type that like to start trouble or like to victimize other people, I usually just don't associate with them. And if trouble comes to me, yet you have to deal with it. I mean the myth about when you get locked up you need to fight the first guy you see, because then you you make sure you've got a name in there, that you're not going to be fucked with, and this and that, like I've heard all that shit. I've noticed that when you go in, if you're not causing a lot of problems, a lot of problems usually don't come to you. But if a problem does come to you, if something happens, you can't back down because that that immediately is cause for people to come and mistake kindness for weakness or or just take advantage of your weakness. And I mean, dude, I just a nature of life. Yeah, really, is the animal kingdom right, absolutely. It's totally nature in a condensed, yeah, like situation, and they like you see so much of the the laws of nature in there and it's it's weird, man. I I say, you know, I've never really had too...

...many problems, but in the beginning I made a lot of mistakes, I'm not going to lie. Like I went in I was hyper aware of, you know, everything in there. I I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be victimized. I wanted to make sure that I at least how some kind of respect like other people, that I wasn't going to be taken advantage of and things like that. So I did hang with some of the tougher guys. You you hear all these stories about you have to stick with your race. You have to make sure that you're you know, you're a solid white guy if you're white and your you this to that and and while you tend to gravitate to people of your race just because that's how everyone is in there. It's just it's not like some law where they're going to come up to you if you're sitting with with people of another race out of Chow Hall and and give you shit like hey, hey, break it up. You guys can cannell sit together, you know, like they wear side story. Yeah, my my workout partners and card partners when I was upstate and conquered prison were a Portuguese kid, Hispanic kid and and a black dude and me. You know, it was and nobody bothered us. We all got along great and we looked like a United States of Bennington ad or some kind of you know, gap ad or something. But Um, but I will yeah, I don't know about the gap. You guys were wearing a different fashion, you know, Bob Barker's gap. Like, yeah, Bob Barker, exactly when I first went in. Okay, so I my first my first sentence of serving a year, and I happen to come in the same day as this Lebanese dude. It's not not a racist thing, I'm just saying it to make it easier to identify him as the story goes on. So I'm new in. This little Lebanese dude who's a few years younger than me, happens to strike up a conversation at the bullpen and that court with me, and turns out he's in there because some underage girl is accusing him of like grabbing her tits or something not so wholesome, you know. And okay, yeah, of course he swears he's innocent or whatever. For some reason he's just telling me the story, despite that being like a charge that can get you fucked up or or force you to check into protective custody when you're in there. I mean, you know a charge like that, you know, you shouldn't be talking about that because people don't want to hear that they're sharing a block with with a diddler or, you know, a rapist, or as the bigause. No, no, right, yeah, that's a big one, that snitching stuff like that. Yeah. So, so, anyway that I get locked up, I get out of court, they bring me to the jail. They put us in separate units. So I didn't see the kid for a while. So like eight months later I'm in this comfortable block, I'm working in the kitchen, I've gotten to know a lot of people, I'm in the Groove, you know. I got my routine down and one day the Lebanese kid is moved on to our block and he's gotten comfortable in jail too. So He's all loud and being this young thug type WHO CAUSES A lot of commotion, talking a lot of shit and he's just an irritating presence on the block. So the the group I tended to hang around with that at the time just mostly happened to be big white dudes, probably, you know, probably affiliated with groups I don't agree with, but I was young and I had heard that you stay with your own race, etc. Is My first time in. So they weren't like overt Notzi skinheads or anything, just a bunch of yes, solid white dudes, they called them, and they were cool with me because I was white too. They call them solid. Well, I was like the thing, like, you know, hey, man, you're solid, you're cool. Yeah, you solid white dude. Your your so, you, you, you know. It's like yeah, basically your stand up dude whatever. So, okay, yeah, and I mean there's a so sort of code in there where, like I said, if you have a shady charge like a sex crime or hurting a kid or a snitch or whatever, it says so on your paperwork, and then there would be a valid reason to force someone out of the block and into protective custody. So one of these big white dudes I knew actually said one day what like I wish we had a reason to check that Lebanese kid into pc because he's so loud and annoying. Like I wish we had some valid reason, because they weren't going to just do it for no reason, because the Lebanese kid was affiliated with a gang to and you can't just attack some gang member without a valid reason or you're going to start a gang more in there, you know. But I knew that the kid was in there for allegedly touching an underage girl. and rather than mind your own business, you know, as I've learned to do in the meantime, I was all caught up in the energy of these tough dude saying fuck these kid we need a reason to get him off the block. And so I said. So I go, Hey, if you guys, emphasis on...

...you guys, check, check his paperwork. I hear he's got like a diddler charge, like a touch in an underage girl charge. So I expected these guys to be all psyched and to start making moves. Well, what I didn't know at that young age is that what these guys wanted more than anything was like entertainment. And since I was the one who was putting the you know, touching kid jacket on the guy, like I'm the one that's calling him a diddler or whatever, they wanted me to go check the kid in, like personal and I didn't even really care enough about the situation of like fight the kid or confront him. I was just some young assholes. Should have kept my mouth shut and right, yeah, but totally yeah, I thought those big dudes wanted a reason to check the kid in, but instead now they're looking at me like dude, you're accusing him of this, then it's you who goes and handles it. And for them it's just all entertainment. They all get to watch the shit go down. So it does make sense. I mean, I was the one who said something. I was I was just trying to be a little pussy and keep my hands clean at the time. Yeah, but now it's turning to glad eater, you know. So now I had to go to the kid and be like hey, man, you gotta go, you know. And of course the kid wanted to fight, to stand up for himself and try to regain some on her. And for a minute I was nervous that somehow that charge was maybe somehow off his record now or something, and and I'd have to deal with issues with his gang or something for calling this kid a skin or when he wasn't. And but when we were alone, right before he took his first swing at me in the mob closet or whatever, he kind of whispered in this pathetic voice, dude, why'd you have to say anything? So I knew, yeah, I knew it was valid and despite him being this loud mouth like pest on the block, I actually felt a little bad like. I don't know the whole story. Maybe he didn't really touch the girl and she was just, you know, a bitch. It was like talking to I don't know, and I betrayed his trust. Even though, you know, the kid has a diddler charge, I still felt I'm still somebody who, how is so fucking weird. Man. This is like it's a terrible comparison, but it's like high school. You trying to fit in with a certain click, Yep, you know, and you think you're doing something to appease that click, and they turn it on you and you're not like one of them anymore. You just like a fucking lab run. Yeah, I was a crash dummy. They call that, like a crash dummy when they yeah, yes, fucked up, they can send some dude to go do some shit and entertain them and fight crazy. Yeah, it's I was a crash dummy, but I do. So. How this fight go down? You you said you're in a mop closet. Yeah, he whispered. Do you like, why the fuck you betray me and then you guys just start swinging? Yeah, basically, he swung at me, and I mean I yeah, I still I had to fucking hit the kid. I mean I really only connected like three or four times before the people started saying, like the guards are coming and whatnot. And and I have a longer reach than the kid and I was definitely connecting with his face when he was more just kind of glancing off me with his you know, just I didn't even have marks on me and everyone, everyone ended up scattering and when the guards did their next like scheduled count, they happen to notice this kid had, you know, his face was all swollen and they took him to the infirmary and he never ended up coming back to the block and he apparently never snitched on me either for doing it. And most importantly, perhaps I never had issues with the gang, so presumably I wasn't wrong about all this shit, you know. But yeah, but that was a big early lesson for yeah, you never did that again. No, I stay out of Shit, you know, after that, I mean some people live for that, some people go in there and it's they call it wreck. I'm getting wreck like recreation, like I'm going to go get some wreck, I'm going to go like start a fight with this dude, and they enjoy but to me, I want to do my time easily. I want to be in there get it done as quick as possible and anything that upsets my little routine, it fucks you should dude. You get into this routine when you're locked up where you learn what to do in the morning, what to do, you know, in between Chow to fill your time, and the whole point of the day is how do I fill my day and get this day over with so I can start the next one and kill that day. And next thing you know, the time is pretty much flying by. Like I said before that prison time is like the fastest increment of time. It seems to fly by. Next thing you know you're turning around. You're like wow, that month just flew by, and that's great when you're in there, but when you get...

...a little older or you've you know, you're realizing you're you spent however many years in there, you start realizing, wow, I'm just trying to kill my life and get it over with. You're not appreciating your life, you're just trying to kill the time. And Yeah, and that is the real punishment in there. It's that they're stealing life from you. They're stealing like they take you away from the things that you enjoy and you just have to get through it. And so I learned at some point that you don't stop living when you're in there, like I had to learn that, like, look, I have to still laugh, I I have to still enjoy myself in here all go crazy. So I don't know, I started writing to some weird groups that would send you books about how to treat your time like it's instead of a prison, it's more of like a an ashram or a place to meditate and like use your time to kind of maybe actually get better, like the actual purpose of jail is to rehabilitate, but it never does that. So I was like, well, that's on you. Yeah, basically, it's what you're saying. It's like they're not there to help you, they just want to lock you up. If you want to better yourself, you've got a do it yourself, absolutely and you can do it and you can find people in there that are of the same mind, at least somewhat. You know, they may not be completely all about self improvement or whatnot, but you can at least stay away from the ones that are, that are making things more difficult and perpetuating their cycle of destruction or whatever. So I don't know. I like to think that my time in there wasn't wasted. If I wasn't arrested, I will say that I probably would be dead by now, like I when I was locked up. At that time in my addiction, I think the only thing that was able to stop me from using was being physically removed from it. Like I wasn't stopping on my own. I was. I stopped because, hey, you're in a cell, it's hard to get drugs in here. You're not going anywhere, so you just got to get through it. And next thing I know it's been six months and I feel great, I feel healthy, and you'd always come out Jack, I'll give you that. Yeah, yeah, it work out and I don't know, I learned to appreciate feeling healthy and feeling good naturally instead of just, yeah, just doing all these drugs for a fake feeling of peace. So there's plenty of stories like that. There's plenty of mistakes I made as far as that fight that I went through. I of Alve that time that I spent in there. I think I was trying to think back. I've only been in three fights totals, and so that's not bad considering all the time I spent. But but that one was probably the biggest lesson I learned from a fight. Like, like other fights were more like just defending myself from some idiot who's pulling some stupid shit or whatever. Like, like I said, you can't back down. So if somebody tries to steal something from you or tries to, yeah, like cheat at cards on you know, with you when you're playing for money or whatever, it's like sometimes you have to you have to fight, you know, I get a stick up for yourself and that sucks. Yeah, but you know, that's a lesson you hopefully learned when you're younger. You know that. You Yeah, you know so I. Well, everybody, you know, expect shivs, and you know the scenes from movies were in line for food is someone picks up like the hot fucking chilly or something and throws it in someone else's face and they're fucking skin melts off. You know, that's the thing. You know it, just like anything else, move Beas and television perpetuates this kind of idea that we all have about prison. Yeah, and you know, you, being a someone who's been there considerable amount of time then now we just discussed, you know, some of the some of the things aren't that far off. I mean, yeah, it's far you know. Again, the chilly thing is fucking out there. You know, I mean as pick that one. It random off the top of my head. But a lot of like the social things do in fact exist inside there. Sure. Yeah, people, like I said, people do take advantage of others, they do victimize people there. There are the one thing that I will say that's that's been kind of unfairly propped up in the media and whatnot is is the whole the treatment of like homosexuality in jail. Like for the most part you don't see a lot of like people being raped and victimized and things like that in the prisons I've been and because, for the most part, like I said, a rapist, a child molester, any of those sex crimes people are not cool with in there. So unless somebody is a complete monster...

...and everyone else is afraid to like attack him for it, usually someone's not going to get away with with raping a weaker person in there or something like that. I mean, you see, you see some people like that are able to to maybe manipulate. I've heard stories of people who's roommates have been manipulative and like well, you know, if you I might be able to get you some canteen if you're really hungry or whatnot. If you if you, you know, suck my Dick or this are that? Like? I have heard stories like that, but for the most part it's not like, you know, I'm going to kick the shit out of you if you don't let me fuck you or something. You know, it's this is a really about dropping the soap. Everybody is always dropping the soap. Yep, that's that's bullshit to man. That's yeah, but you're not going to immediately get raped for bending over. No, I mean, first of all, it's hard to just get in there real quick. I guess. You know, if someone bends over, try to just stick your Dick in as real quick. It's hard work. Yeah, but no, honestly, like in the first of all, a lot of the showers in a lot of facilities are individual showers, but the ones that aren't, I've noticed that for the most part people don't want to look around people are in there. They just washing up. They made joke with the person next to them, like telling a little you know, talking, but no one's looking. No one's trying to get a look at your shit when you're in there. You know they just want to get cleaned up and get out of there. Sometimes you'll see fights happen in the shower. That's one thing I have see. I just quickly. I had a friend in there who had an issue with this with this gang member, and the guy kept getting attacked by this one gang member kid and his name is Pete. My friend's name was Pete. So Pete would get attacked by this gang member kid and then end up beating the shit out of the kid, and so the kid who attack him would end up getting his ask it. Then it would happen again. The kid would be like Pete would be in line for Chow and the kid would try again and again pete would kick the shit out of him. Finally, one day Pete's in the shower and we saw on the block. We saw this gang member kid walking up to his showers, individual showers on that block, and we see the kid pull open the shower curtain and Pete's in there buck naked and he's like ah again. So he kicked the kids ass butt naked on the tier, like he comes out of her shower and beat the shit out of the kid buck naked. And Yeah, after that the kid kind of backed off. It was just like, I guess, I guess I'm going to give up now, but but it was entertaining seeing somebody that was completely naked and covered in sham. There you go. Yeah, like he kept getting his ass heat, but now I'm kicking your ass and my Dick. He's in your face. Yeah, you know, so sniff my balls. You know that's that probably be a deterring thing for most people. Yeah, yeah, add insult to injury. Did you make any friends in prison that maybe you know you're still friends with now or you've kept in touch with or anything like that? Yes, I mean it's impossible not to meet somebody get along within there eventually, and I've made some really strong connections with people and there are a lot of them that, yeah, I've never seen again. You get moved to a different facility or you get moved to a different block or whatever it is, and you just lose touch. But there's a few that the miracle of facebook at least, has kept me in touch with a few of them, and in a few cases I actually still hang out with them. My nates notes segment this week I actually mention one of them. You'll see as as the episode goes on. But yeah, for the most part it's just a temporary friendship you make. Yeah, and they're you're grateful to have it when you're in there. Well, this has been a heavy, heavy, heavy topic. Next episode we're going to have to talk about UNICORNS or some shit just to kind of like balance it out. Yeah, child, childhood cartoons we used to enjoy or something like yeah, here we go. Is something. Hopefully, yeah, something a little bit more like. I'm going to talk about my salad. Yeah, my vinegarette. You have anything else you want to add on the topic? Or should we move on? I mean, I could talk all day about stuff, but I mean, I think that's enough for now. I'm sure, I'm sure will other stories will pop up in future episodes. But well, the previous episode we had you were talking about the shitters. So if you haven't heard the pets episode, if you're listening right now, check out our archive and hear that one. But yeah, so I'm sure some of your stories will pop up again. Yeah, yeah, that one. That one made sense because it combined jail and fecal matter, which I also end up talking about a lot. Right, right, all right. Think thanks for sharing your stories, Natan. That was some really interesting stuff. I mean it's just, you know, an inside look. A lot of people we just don't know, we really don't. I don't your might, you're my pal and you tell me these things and it's always really interesting to me, you know. Yeah,...

...and I would not survive prison. I can say that wholeheartedly right now. I I disagree, because I always thought I thought the same way and, like I said, I've never been someone that likes confrontation. I've never been a like, somebody that was really a fighter. I was never yeah, yeah, but but you did. You get through it, you'll get you get through anything. Don't say you'll get because I don't want to get arrested, but I mean, I am a fat, Lazy Fuck. I can't live without my Netflix, my vaping, you know, things like that. I couldn't imagine being cooped up in a cell without my family, my friends and the things I enjoy. So, like you said, burning time, baby. Yeah, all right, let's take a quick commercial break and when we return the selling out sound off. There are only two types of people in the world, those who love infirmary media and those who have never tried it. Hey from the selling out show here and I want to tell you about a company I absolutely love, Mitten vaporscom. Whether you are a novice or an experienced cloud competitor, mitten vapors has a wide variety of juices to tickle your taste buds and all the accessories you'll ever need. Mitten vaporscom always provides outstanding savings on superior bait products shift fast and straight to your door. Right now, fans of the show can use code selling out for an additional thirty per sent off. I'm enjoying mitten vapors Pinky, a sweetest smooth candy all day van, and while this has become a personal favorite of mine, you could spend days trying all the flavors that they sell. Don't waste your time with all the coil killing junk from the other vape companies out there. I'm a vapor and I want the highest quality at the best price, and the place to get that has been vaporscom. visit them today. Don't forget. Use Code selling out at check out for thirty percent off some products contain nicotine adult soul. Hi, I'm Carla and I'm Michael and we're go postal podcast, where the podcast that tells you stories about what people have done while drunk, well also giving you some facts about boobs, booze and the bizarre in the places where these stories take place. We also have a weekly contest where you tell us where the Fi am. So join us for some drinking, learning and laughing and listen on Itunes, stitcher, spotify, Google play and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Find US online at twitter, instagram and facebook at go postal podcast, and send us your drunk gramblings and anecdotes. You can also email your stories to go post a podcast at gmailcom. Now, if you desame wow in birmary media. Sure, sure, sure, sure, all right, we are back the selling out sound off and nate, I got to be honest, is kind of a failure. It's time around, because I knew we're doing the prison episode mode and I asked people on twitter if there was one person living, dead or fictional, that you could lock up and throw away the key, who would it be? And can you imagine what most of the responses were? I'M gonna GUESS DONALD TRUMP, whoa? That was number one. Baby, Yep, that was number one, and then Hitler. Yeah, yeah, you know what. Both makes sense, but I was kind of hoping someone would say like Bob at the DMB. Yeah, you know that fucking cock sucking makes me wait in line for three hours. You know, something a little different. I don't know my brother Bill, I don't know mother to. Basically, that would have been great, but I didn't get any Mother Teresa all, you know, or even like a character from like, I don't even know, Harry Potter or something. People just hit me with trump and Hitler, and I don't blame them, but I think next time, if I ever were to ask a question like that again, I just say fictional. Because really, if you say a living or dead, who else are you going to choose besides trump and Hitler? Yeah, they go hand in hand. Yeah, I'M gonna lock up LEX Luthor. Yeah, because he's I like that trouble dude. You're on a Rollman, Mother Teresa, Lex Luthor, I like these. Where were you when I asked the question, even though I think it'd be kind of self serving just to only give our answers and not ask the general public. I do appreciate those who did respond. Thank you for that, because I do post these from time to time and I love reading everybody's replies. I also want to let people know that we also have a call in line now. So do you say prank or do you say crank, like when you talk about making a naughty phone call? I say prank with a P to. Yeah, maybe it's like a regional thing. I've heard other people say crank call and that never made sense to me. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's another one of those things that gradually became like common numbenclature, even though it I think prank is the real word, right. Yeah, term, yeah, yeah, well, our phone number is seven, seven, four, seven hundred one, one thousand nine hundred and ninety three. That goes straight to voice mails. You don't have to worry about me or nate picking up and you can feel free to ramble on about whatever you want, if you like the show, if you don't like the show, if you want to talk about your cat sprinkles,...

...we don't care. Feel free to give us a call any time, day or night, and if you want to engage with a show, you can follow us on twitter at selling out show or write us an email selling out show at gmailcom. And now I used to be legendary for prank calls. Did you make any of those back in the day? I never really made any with you that I can recall. Yeah, I remember you telling me about him, but I don't know. I Love Them. I Love Them. I remember one time we had like all these cups and bowls full of water and I'd randomly call people up and make it sound like I was taking a leak, like an endless leak, and I wouldn't let them hang up, and one time I called the Guy I was call them, Bob, I guess, and I'm like hey, Bob, what's going on, and you know the sound of the water and I'm making like grunting noises whatever, and the fucking guy didn't hang up on me and I eventually got around to asking him what he did for a living and because I'm retired, well really, what will you train to do? What did you do for most of your life? And he responded kill, wow, and I said, Oh boy, I got a hot one here and it turned out he was in the military. But yeah, I was fairly humorous, and this, of course, was back of the day before you'd record things. Yeah, it was all just for being my friends amusements. Right. So, well, yeah, or you called a Nintendo hot line and be like hey, my Nintendo is dirty, and they'd be like well, you can clean it doing this or that. You be like yeah, well, I have it in the bathtub right now and it's not where. You know, a stupid shit, stupid stuff. Do you have any notable prank calls? I'm in nothing I can really remember offhand. We had our share as kids, but it was never we were never that clever. I don't think prank calls weren't really my forte. But no, really, I was pulling them all the time. Yeah, we're two different animals, you and I und eight. Yep, that's a fact. I also want to talk about a couple shows that I really enjoy and I think deserve some recognition. Yes, please do. If you're a comic Book Fan, make sure you check out cosmic treadmill. They take a look at the back issue binds and give you a really thorough look at the creators and the story in those books and they can be found on twitter at cosmic teamill. If you like conspiracies or thing about the crypto creatures, make sure you check out secret transmission at Secret Trans Pod. And they actually have a video game show now at secret levels pod as hosted by a good buddy of mine that I've met online named Toby. So yeah, check those shows out. Call US right us, talk to us. We want to hear from you. Now it's time for another commercial break and when we return, nate's notes day from the selling out show. Here to tell you about spunk loob. Spun Loube is a multi award winning Mouber can't use by professionals in the adult film industry. Spunk is available in hybrid, pure silicone, natural and pick spunk is made with the highest quality ingredients and is non standing, hypoellergenic and cleans with ease. Enhance your love life with spunk right now. SPUNK LOUBE is by three, get one free. There's no excuse not to give it a try. SPUNK LOUB A high end product for an affordable price. Is it? Spunk loubcom today and you can thank me later. One day ends one's Day. Frenzy Motor speed where watch me, green infected splink Turbo plastmas seals off the competition and is devastating. Aspen Dragon ruling THUNDERCARNS, crank up the sixteen foul madness in his overblown and deadly L Camino Mexica. Watch the FIG boys rampage down the full page spreads and the direct mayheam with five Wednesday, man head to head, neck in neck, roaring down the poll list of deaths every Wednesday while the electricity holds out. It's and it's the professor friends shows, a show past of friends, a shows past friends. It's a show that stuff, friends show. If you like indie comics and also like podcasts, please try the professor frenzy show. Find the show in itunes search and facebook episodes tweeted out on at Professor Frenzy on twitter. Thank you, ysening. Joes. Did you hear that movie meeting? For anybody dare talking complete dust up your lps. It's time for nate. No, no, no. Being an avid music fan as a teenager ensured that I had some questionable role models. I've pointed out in other segments that I don't blame any musical artists for the bad choices I've made in my life. But the heroes I chose to look up too often came with their own share of baggage. My own drug history took the predictable turns down...

...from marijuana, through Hallucinagin's and Psychedelics, through the neighborhood of amphetamines and tranquilizers, of eventually ending up stranded in the wasteland of Heroin Addiction. But in the beginning it was a fun, leisurely stroll and the scenery seemed really bright and vivid. I remember listening to music when I was a pot smoking teenager, and even more so when LSD or mushrooms came into play. The chemicals added another dynamic aspect to the music. It created this sort of synesthesia effect where the sounds had a tangible shape to them. Not surprisingly, I gravitated towards bands that made these soundscapes like whole environments made of noise, rather than standard verse course, verse songs. Electronic acts like the future sound of London or the orb were like sculptors of sound, and even without a head full of acid, you could get lost in the world's contained in their albums but honestly, listening to the life forms album by future sound of London or Orbis terrum by the ORB while tripping on psychedelics, or even just when really stoned, I would say is more engrossing and entertaining than most movies that exist. It was virtual reality before virtual reality was a thing. The years went by, I started writing music with friends, and we usually at least tried to carry that influence of psychedelic audio world building into our own music. To this day, it takes a certain type of person to really appreciate the music that I'm most proud of making, because it's not usually listener friendly, verse chorus, verse stuff. I've definitely written my share of simple, catchy songs when I was in certain bands, but the stuff I really work hard on and take the most pride in requires some attention and reacts better with a mind that's had least been a little tenderized by psychedelics. The thing is, my curity and excitement for these substances got the better of me. If I had just stopped at the level of hallucinogens, I think I'd have been more or less okay in the long run. I still don't regret any of the tripping I did back then, and actually I think most people would be well served by at least one or two excursions into the PSYCHEDELIC world. But I guess I figured in for a penny in for a pound, and I wanted to see what the fuss was all about with the other drugs I'd heard about. People had told me that these beautiful hallucinogens were deadly and not to be trifled with. So maybe the colloquial knowledge surrounding all these illicit substances, the other ones, is also overstated and kind of bullshit. Well, spoiler alert, some of the Shit people warn you about is actually true. So, no matter how brave of a psychonautic explorer you consider yourself, maybe tread into the waters of opiates a bit more carefully or, better yet, maybe just avoid them all together. I started using heroin at seventeen. It also had a profound effect on my relationship with music. I felt more connected to the songs I'd listen to. I felt like I was writing more passionately. In the beginning, heroin seems to make you more sensitive, which as which is ironic, because it actually numbs you and in the end you lose pretty much all passion for anything except the drug itself, and it didn't take that long for me to start noticing that shit. I started being late for band practices or missing shows because I was perpetually waiting for my dealer. Anyone who's been there can tell you that you end up spending a huge amount of your life as an addict just waiting for these assholes who take your money and sell you your own death. And then, on top of it, they make you all wait all fucking day for it, and he can't just say screw it, I'm leaving, he's taken too long because without the drug you're puking, shitting massive raw nerves and he can't do much until he gets there. It's not like I consciously said Fuck Music, I like this shit better now. It's just that I got seduced by it, and the lifestyle of a junkie makes it hard to commit to anything, even if it's the thing you've dreamed about since you were kid listening to records. I tried to make it work. I remember when we had our first big chance to go out with a tour bus opening for a couple of national acts. We had played with some bigger names, but now we were actually traveling around, spreading our music to places we've never been in front of bigger crowds because we're opening for established acts, and I tried to stock up on enough dope to last the whole trip. Seems like it would be just a matter of taking what you usually do daily and multiplying that by how many days you're going to be gone right. Well again, any addict can tell you this. If you have more on you, you're going to do more. It's addiction, you know. Feeling good after a set, yet end up doing another bag, feeling a little extra hungover...

...in the morning, do an extra bag. An addict doesn't need to look hard for a reason to use. So before you know it you've got some shows left to do and you don't have the medicine to get through. That's when you either have to perform sick as a dog, or you have to try to cop dope in a strange city, avoiding arrest and avoiding people selling you fake shit all that good stuff, or you have to cancel the GIG. Either way, the drugs are getting in the way of the band performing, and the sad thing is usually as an addict. Eventually you start looking at it like, well, all these responsibilities I have are getting in the way of my drug use. It's it's fucked up. This dream I had ever since I was a kid that seemed to be taking shape. I don't want to oversell it. We weren't like on our way to becoming rock stars or anything, but but things were happening. We were making money, we're making connections, playing all the time, this thing everyone tells you as a far fetched dream, and we were starting at least, to do it, and I was watching myself piss it away. It wasn't the only issue in the band. Like one guy was pretty severe alcoholic, one worked at a pharmacy and had developed a bit of a Benzo Habit, pilfering ZANEX and Klonopins from work. Only one dude was pretty much completely straight edge, and he must have just been tearing his hair out the whole time. When we finally broke up, I finally had the opportunity to pursue my drug use full time, so that's what I did. The next decade or so was pretty devoid of music, to say the least, and now my journey to get back to some kind of normal life has been uneven and full of ups and downs. Spent a lot of time locked up, as I mentioned earlier, and the last period of incarceration was back in two thousand and thirteen. Ironically, during that sentence I met someone who has been instrumental in getting me back on the horse musically. At the time I had long hair and a beard. The other inmates would call me big Jesus, big because there was also a little Jesus. I started talking to my fellow savior, who naturally also had long hair and a beard, but he was a bit shorter than me, hence little Jesus. It was interesting because he was the first person in all my years locked up that shared my love for a lot of the same somewhat obscure bands. Plus, he told me he also played music himself. More coincidentally, this guy was wrapping up his sentence the same week that I was, so he invited me to get together with him and some other friends the weekend following our release. As it turned out, we all click very well musically and we've been playing shows together ever since. I still find it odd that my reintegration into making music sick, which was once so important to me, started with a chance encounter behind bars and weirdness upon weirdness. Little Jesus shared more than his jailhouse moniker with me. His real name also just happens to be made like me, I'm not someone who believes in signs or cosmic messages or whatever, but it's not lost on me how cool the whole thing is, and it's it's been really nice playing out again, you know, creating with likeminded people some organized noise and feeling fulfilled artistically for the first time in years. It's been really cool, man, you know, like it's in it's interesting how it all turned out. But you know what, though, Fuck that, fuck all of that name. Oh Yeah, fuck that. No, I know I'm just playing a fucking devil's advocate here, but no, no, you know, one thing you mentioned in the beginning there was maybe you should try a hallucinogenics. Yep, and that I say no. No one ever try tripping your balls off, because whenever I think of those, whether it was LSD or remember one time we tried this stuff. Was it called saliva? Salvia? Salvia. Thank you, and man, that fucked me up like nobody's business. I still think of the scene from the Golden Child where he sees hell is, he sees his dear sweet brother. Now see just clapping as fire burns around them. My three problem. That fucking happened to me. That shit really happened to me, like I experienced that as no, I do not am in that for anybody. Well, see, I think it all depends. It depends on the person. But you, you at least tried it. You you must have also had a few positive experiences. I know you and I did our share of tripping together and we did a lot of laughing, we did a lot of talking. You know, there are some good experiences, and that's what I'm saying. I think. I think people, under the right circumstances can can do positively with that mind opening effect. But I just again, I take things too far. If I had stopped at that point, who knows, maybe I would have been that due to just trips every day and ends up like...

...being some waste aoid that doesn't do anything but trip, because I'm an addict. But the fact is I went on to bigger and badder things and I just yea. Yeah, it ended up robbing me of potential. Like I don't feel comfortable talking like complimentary to my about myself, but people would tell me that, like, you know, may, you're you're good at this music thing. You're you're, you're talented, you're you're somebody that could do something with this, and instead I just got fucked up all the time. And Yeah, I know I disappointed people in my band as well as everyone in my life. But you know, that's something I got to live with now and I'm just trying to like enjoy what I've got now, which is I play in a band with these dudes. We have a lot of fun. I write music on my own. I talked about music here. We do this podcast. I really enjoy it. I'm glad that you and I, you know are, are still doing something creatively together. I don't know, I'm glad to have this sort of second chance. I'll be it, you know, twenty years later. But yeah, some people don't get that that they really don't. That's what I'm saying. So, so then I remember we be playing a GIG and be like hey, where's mate? Yeah, Oh, I think he's passed out in the shitter. Yeah, well, Dude. That's I was specifically referring to that when I mentioned how the drugs would make me miss gigs and things. We you and I had this band that you know. We were lucky enough to play some really fun shows and the first one was like legendary. I still think about it like it was. We referenced it on another episode where we were talking about how I was naked on stage and we're doing all kinds of crazy shit. And the second Gig should have been just as fun, but instead I was out of drugs, so I had to go meet my dealer and I remember waiting for this little assholes to sell me dope and I'm sitting in my car, miles from the Gig and thinking I got to be on stage in ten minutes, he better hurry, and then thinking I got to be on stage in two minutes, I'm not going to make it, and then thinking I should have been on stage five minutes ago, man, but this assholes still not here and I think I got there in time for us to go on stage for like five minutes. But but that's what I'm talking about. I was more concerned with like getting my fix, and that's just part of the course. It's just what that drug does to you. Eventually. Again, maybe it's not the opious per se, but I remember not being able to do anything unless I was drinking and talking about music. We'd have band practice and I just want to get fucking as cocked as humanly possible before I even started doing something. It was like and I was a complete mess. So you guys were like yeah, well, you know, we're just going to do the music and jam over here and Dave can come up with lyrics later. And by the time I was ready I couldn't even speak right. Yeah, you're like, I need, I need to get drunk enough to play, but then it was a fine line before you were too drunk to play. You know. It's like yeah, so I had an uncle who is a guy who's in bands throughout the s and stuff, and he saw us and he mentioned to me. He's like, you guys are fucking up. Of course you never listen to your elders at that point in time, but he was saying, like you think your rock stars but you haven't made it yet. You guys are all about getting fucking wasted and getting girls and being cool motherfuckers, but that all comes in time. Right, focus on the music now, and I really wish, in hindsight, with many, many things, as you even, you know, talked about with your knights notes. It could be applied in every, every area of life we had done such a thing and focus more, kept our eye on the prize and less about the substances and being fucking, you know, the party guys. And that's what it was. Because another thing I noticed was at first is fun. Right, everything's fun. You're cool to hang around. People want you at their party because you tell good jokes, you get fucked up and you're funny dude, you, me, or whoever we're talking about. But then over time it it degrades into the point that nobody fucking wants you around. Right, they don't. They don't even want to be around you anymore because you're not funny anymore, you're not cool, you don't say any interesting quips anymore. You just a mess, your mess Yep. It's like I said, it's part for the course. It's just what happens eventually. It's funny. I'm remember your uncle saying that, like I still think about that thing that your uncle said about you know, what do you guys doing it? You're doing it backwards. You supposed to be. You're supposed to make the music, and make it first and then do the party in and if you want to, if you want to overdose and die later, go for it, but but wait till you're famous first, you know, some money in your pocket before you Keel over. Yeah, man, but he was right. But you know, in the grand scheme of things, is a positive way to look at it is you just said it. Now you jam, you do your band, you have your podcast, you know me, and you have...

...a lot of fun doing this creatively. Right, and in many ways we're super lucky to be able to do such a thing, because we know a lot of people who didn't get that opportunity. You're you're absolutely right, though. Too many, too many of us have, you know, fallen by the wayside and died too young. So, yeah, I don't know, that's a I think out of out of some negative subject matter, that's a pretty positive way to wrap things up. Is that you know? Yeah, totally, you have now, because a lot of people don't have. You know even this. So yeah, no, it's true that you get told when you're a little kid like enjoy, enjoy your vegetables, because some kids don't have their Broccoli or something you like a fuck you. What are you talking about? Broccoli sucks, but in the end it's all pretty good. Just be able to have something, whatever it is, man, you know, roof over your head, a pot to Pisson, or even a fucking podcast. or it's an outlet to be able to speak your mind to a group of people right when. And I love Broccoli. So all right, and to remind everybody, if you ever want to reach out to us, I gave you the phone number earlier and its seven seven four seven one, one thousand nine hundred and ninety three, which was a great year, and you can follow us on twitter at selling out show or just send us the email selling out show at gmailcom. I want to thank each and every one of you for tuning in. I appreciate the hell out of it. Virtual hugs for all of you. See you later. Six Infirmary Media.

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